Russia & Ukraine

On this issue cuddles,this issue:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I disagree with republicans and moderate democrats on far more:rolleyes:
What other issue would we be talking about? I'm not Vanz going on tangents, of course on this issue. America is far from perfect, so if that's your measuring stick every country short of Utopia is "always bad".

Let me rephrase since it wasn't obvious from the thread topic:

As I have said however, the "America interventionism always bad" bloc of the left has been no better than MAGAtards at being useful idiots falling for Russian propaganda.
 
Lots of saber rattling going on here. So now a nuclear exchange is okay? We should call Putins bluff? I recall, not all that long ago, when the same people were calling Trump a crazy man for challenging little Kim, who was/is no more or less crazy than Putin and Kim had a hell of a lot less nuclear firepower. Funny how things change as the politics change.
If we're going all in, then let it be known there's a price to pay for that. There's a price for doing nothing. This is the conundrum we find ourselves in when all parties involved have so much shit in their own game. No clean hands. How's that line go, nobody is right when everyone's wrong. Should come as no surprise that we would eventually end up here.

I think you need to revisit history. When Obama reached out to Kim, FOX news called him bad names for negotiating with a terrorist. When trump reached out, it was the greates thing ever. Funny how things change as the politics change. By the way.... Kim and North Korea are no different than where it was in 2006 so politics as usual.

To be fair.. Kim was pretty much contained in his own country barely able to feed his people and never really threatening any one in the region outside of some weak words. North Korea was a threat in name only since 1953.

Putin actually invaded Georgia, Crimea, helped Syria and now invaded Ukraine.... not the same as little Kim at all...

The best thing to do is contain him in Ukraine and starve Russia financially until the suffer like the way they are making those Ukranians suffer. I am happy to see the world turn its back on Russia because Russian atheltes and millionaires have not cared about Putin as long as they made their money. Well now the spigot is shut off from soccer to banking...time to stop being pussies as your "elected" president terrorizes the world.
 
Putin is likely to move to some of the non-European Soviet satellite states first before he comes back to Europe.

His methods are clear -- first use propaganda to undermine the existing government, use agents to rile up the population & cause unrest, use an increasing number of threats & demands against the nation, and then launch military action to seize territory.

At some point nations need to put their foot down and firmly draw a line at what is acceptable & use military force as a collation if necessary to stop aggression from dictators. It would have been best to resolve the Ukraine situation peacefully but it appears we are well past that point without applying a "no-fly zone" or some direct action to stop Russian aggression. Russia is not going to stop action in the Ukraine due to western sanctions.

So the West is at a crossroads -- either do nothing & let Putin have his will with the Ukraine -- or step up & take a firm stand. Not taking a firm stand now backed with action will just further embolden Putin to assault other nations.

What are you basing your belief that Putin is likely to move to some of the non-European Soviet sat states before coming back to invade Europe? I'm genuinely asking here, because I can't see how you would come to this not being about the Ukraine.

Its possible the West knows exactly what it is doing, and understands that putting up a no-fly zone that they enforce will only get them into a shooting war with Russia. Thankfully, they - not you - are calling the shots.
 
The best thing to do is contain him in Ukraine and starve Russia financially until the suffer like the way they are making those Ukranians suffer. I am happy to see the world turn its back on Russia because Russian atheltes and millionaires have not cared about Putin as long as they made their money. Well now the spigot is shut off from soccer to banking...time to stop being pussies as your "elected" president terrorizes the world.

This right here. And it sends a message to China as well.
 
This right here. And it sends a message to China as well.


I think China is smarter than we are.... they flash all that military and saber rattling but they already realized that being an economic power is the easiest and safest way to make the rest of the world its little bitch and we are too dependent on them to ever take such a strong sanction route. That means they talk a good talk about Taiwan but they make billions so it is just to show off.

China got upset at the NBA over a comment and the NBA bent over within hours. That power is far greater than nuke in Russia. Most vodka is not even made in Russia and main export is wheat. They are a 3rd world economy with 1st world military. China is 1st world now all the way and if they were smart (i doubt it) they would just keep on running the world via its economy and how it sends Chinese companies into all parts of the world to invest and build.
 
Do the Ukrainians really have ballistic missiles or is this fake?

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Never thought I'd share some viewpoints with AOC and Sanders, but there you have it.

Democratic Socialists blame US imperialism for Russian invasion of Ukraine



The Democratic Socialists of America blamed US and NATO “imperialist expansion” for helping trigger the Russian invasion of Ukraine — provoking criticism from local political leaders.

“DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict,” the DSA said in a statement.

“While the failures of neoliberal order are clear to everyone, the ruling class is trying to build a new world, through a dystopic transition grounded in militarism, imperialism, and war. Socialists have a duty to build an alternative.”

The socialist group continued that “much of the next ten years are coming into view through this attack” and closed by saying, “no war but class war.”

The DSA’s members who are elected leaders include Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).


The Democratic Socialists of America put out a statement placing some blame for the Russia-Ukraine conflict on the United States.
Getty Images
Military vet and former Staten Island Democratic Congressman Max Rose said in a tweet, “I am deeply concerned with DSA’s statement calling on the US to unilaterally leave NATO in the midst of a level of Russian Aggression on the European Continent that we have not seen since World War 2.

“Now is the time to double down on our alliances, particularly NATO, to send economic and military aid to Ukraine, and to comprehensively punish Russia with crippling and unprecedented sanctions,” he added.

Long Island Rep. Tom Suozzi, a Democrat running for governor, tweeted in response, “Well said, @MaxRose4NY ! I adamantly oppose the DSA’s statement calling on the US to leave NATO. We must stand by NATO, stand with Ukraine, and stand up against Putin’s bullying.”


Sen. Bernie Sanders, along with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, are two of the DSA’s most prominent elected officials.
AP
The DSA did condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and demanded immediate diplomacy and de-escalation to resolve this crisis.

“We stand in solidarity with the working classes of Ukraine and Russia who will undoubtedly bear the brunt of this war, and with antiwar protestors in both countries and around the world who are calling for a diplomatic resolution,” the DSA said.

The DSA said the invasion is an “illegal act” under the United Nations Charter.

“There is no solution through war or further intervention. This crisis requires an immediate international antiwar response demanding de-escalation, international cooperation, and opposition to unilateral coercive measures, militarization, and other forms of economic and military brinkmanship that will only exacerbate the human toll of this conflict,” the lefty group said.

This should give you some idea of where you’ve always been.
 
I can see you're riled again with the bold font and the angry tone.

All I'm asking is whether you are OK with upping the ante with open military conflict. Because that's where a no-fly zone establishment by NATO leads.


GWB doesn't seem to understand that a no fly zone means NATO likely shooting down Russia planes/killing Russian troops.Might as well put troops on the ground if they are going to do that.
 
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