Russia & Ukraine

Tony Stark said:
Why cant we give them cruise missiles?
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Additionally, a cruise missile could reach Moscow.
Putin would be mad if anyone gives Ukraine that capability.
And we all see how Americans are so fearful of Putin--even though Americans are the world superpower.
 
userque said:
Additionally, a cruise missile could reach Moscow.
Putin would be mad if anyone gives Ukraine that capability.
And we all see how Americans are so fearful of Putin--even though Americans are the world superpower.
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Its got to be nukes.Putin has said he would use them if he was losing a conventional war even if the other side didn't use them against him.I think our defense people believe him.
 
Tony Stark said:
Its got to be nukes.Putin has said he would use them if he was losing a conventional war even if the other side didn't use them against him.I think our defense people believe him.
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Russia's existence is not at stake. If the US was talking about toppling Moscow, then OK, maybe Putin would really consider putting nukes into play.

No non-mental leader is going to enter an all out nuclear war over capturing a nation merely to increase their "land padding" against NATO. This is how I know he's bluffing. It's obvious to me.

So Russia always gets their way because they'll simply say, "I'll nuke ya!" And the world's super power will fold every time?

I guess China will be using that bluff next?

Another often overlooked point, imo, is that the closer a leader brings a nation to all out nuclear war, the more likely the military brass will stop them. While the leader might be suicidal/mental/etc., that doesn't mean the brass is also. There is a good reason Putin is super paranoid now, and isolating himself.

If we are going to fold every time Putin says, "boo!" Fine.

But if we are ever going to grow some balls one day--and not fold to that threat; then this is the day! This is a low risk scenario in which to show the world that we are a super power in fact, and not just because of the size of our military machine.
 
userque said:
Russia's existence is not at stake. If the US was talking about toppling Moscow, then OK, maybe Putin would really consider putting nukes into play.

No non-mental leader is going to enter an all out nuclear war over capturing a nation merely to increase their "land padding" against NATO. This is how I know he's bluffing. It's obvious to me.

So Russia always gets their way because they'll simply say, "I'll nuke ya!" And the world's super power will fold every time?

I guess China will be using that bluff next?

Another often overlooked point, imo, is that the closer a leader brings a nation to all out nuclear war, the more likely the military brass will stop them. While the leader might be suicidal/mental/etc., that doesn't mean the brass is also. There is a good reason Putin is super paranoid now, and isolating himself.

If we are going to fold every time Putin says, "boo!" Fine.

But if we are ever going to grow some balls one day--and not fold to that threat; then this is the day! This is a low risk scenario in which to show the world that we are a super power in fact, and not just because of the size of our military machine.
More...


We can respectfully agree to disagree on this whole issue.Even if Moscow is not at stake,Putins ego will not accept a conventional war loss imo. Overall Russia is a shit hole country and Putin hates the US.I think Putin is willing to go to nuclear war with the US because he has nothing to lose and is willing to take Russia down if he takes The US down with it.If The US calls his bluff we have to be willing to go all the way ,and we aren't for The Ukraine.It would be nice if other Russian leaders take him out,but its not something that can be depended on.


China is different.China isn't a shit hole country and they have a lot to lose. US leaders know that so they are more willing to call China's bluffs than Russia's.
 
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