I confirmed that the west doesn't want to take the risk, yes. You haven't confirmed that Russia is bluffing. Just because you think it is so doesn't make it so.
Russia & Ukraine
- Thread starter UsualName
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I confirmed that the west doesn't want to take the risk, yes. You haven't confirmed that Russia is bluffing. Just because you think it is so doesn't make it so.
I am quite familiar with that. That is why all the bleating about "why are we sanctioning ordinary Russians" is ridiculous. The mother of your wife is an ordinary Russian.
Russia will not be able to wash this blood off for generations. And you can't point to Germany or Japan as examples of reintegration into civilized world - it took complete defeat, full occupation and a long campaign of ideological brainwashing to reform these countries.
Due to the nuclear weapons that's not a possibility with Russia. It will just become a pariah state, isolated from the civilized world, fully autocratic, with any citizen who refuses to live in shit, is in any way ambitious or freethinking running away as soon as they can.
But you also have no proof or certainty they will ever go nuclear.
I can be right and you can be right.
If we are afraid for nuclear war, how far can Putin go? Take all Europe? Kill millions of people? Because we will never stop him. According to you NATO can never fight against Russia. So also not if Russia would invade all Europe. Because he can go nuclear if we do anything.
One day we will have to take the risk of a nuclear war, because Putin knows now that we are so afraid for that war that he can do anything he wishes. He should just threat with nuclear...
NATO and you are explicitly telling that.
I get that. But if I'm wrong, nothing happens and if you're wrong, everyone dies.
If you're wrong, Putin can do anything with impunity because nuclear weapons.
Kremlin-connected children grew up in the very countries whose societies their parents claim to reject
By Majlie de Puy Kamp, Yahya Abou-Ghazala and Isabelle Chapman, CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/12/us/kremlin-kids-in-the-west-invs/index.html
Updated 0212 GMT (1012 HKT) April 13, 2022
By Majlie de Puy Kamp, Yahya Abou-Ghazala and Isabelle Chapman, CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/12/us/kremlin-kids-in-the-west-invs/index.html
Updated 0212 GMT (1012 HKT) April 13, 2022
Not really. He has the same constraints - if he attacks a NATO country, he knows the NATO doctrine is for a full response, so he won't, because of the same risk.
He is calculating that NATO won't directly involve itself in the Ukraine because of the same risk - and he is correct.
Yep. There are howitzer;s in there. And Slovakia has sent some mobilized howitzers. Basically howitzers on a tank or amored carrier chassis rather than as detached artillery pieces that are towed into position.
I still think the Ukrainians troops need food, small arms, ammunition and low end basic stuff.
BIGTIME.
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No, you are not sure that nothing happens if you are wrong. Because Putin can continue to murder and invade and make a lot of victims. He can even invade Europe because he knows NATO is afraid for nuclear war and will not stop Putin. At this moment already a lot of people died. So saying that nothing happens is very sarcastic to me.
If I am wrong, it does not mean that the whole world will be destroyed. So your assumption that the whole world will be destroyed is purely hypothetical and unrealistic. Typical black/white logic.
Very pessimistic people told that Russia would invade Ukraine and reach Kiev in three days. That didn't happen. Russia could easily just bomb entire Ukraine, but they did not, despite the huge frustration and the faikure of the Russian army. So that shows that your assumption "everybody dies" is not realistic. Each war has different stages, never a nothing or all in.
I read that in case of a nuclear war it would be a local nuclear war, so not all Russian rockets falling on the US and Europe and all Western rockets falling on Russia. So the "everyone dies scenario" is not the first thing that will happen.
You are reasoning black versus white. Conflicts in the world are never black versus white. It is an evolution from white to black over many grey scales in between. Conflicts can stop before the color is black.