Russia & Ukraine

UsualName said:
We are getting there. The only question is how many kindergarteners is Putin willing to kill.

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I read this revealing article yesterday- if true. Can't remember where it was but could be googled I spoze. The headline was the "Russian Ukranians opposing Puting or something like that.

Anyway, they interviewed one guy who was former Russian soldier but was now living in the Ukraine. He said he started finding out that some of his former army buddies were now living in the eastern ukraine but still on the putin military payroll. Just part of his infiltration and re-population of the area. The russian soldier didnt like that. He said they even tried to recruit him.

I knew that putin was promoting and funding the local insurgents bigtime. But just assigning russian military to live there was sort of a step up. Apparently it was for the russian army guy too.
 
TreeFrogTrader said:
Olympics are still a factor. But will not be after the weekend. So that goes off the table.

As I have said before, I don't necessarily see this as Vlad shiiting or getting off the pot scenario. He is prick and knows he is damaging Ukraine's economy just by being a prick. I could see him pulling his troops back but leaving them hovering just outside Ukraine and ready to go for months. Not saying he will do that. Just saying, it is an option.

That is why I have said before that he needs to be sanctioned just for threatening actions at some point. I don't buy into the idea that he should be allowed to just do this shiite and then have a few giggles and go home. As a practical matter if he did that today, I don't have a boner for making it an issue and would let it go. But if he wants to make this a regional lifestyle for the Ukrainians and the NATO countries, I would sanction him just for being a prick regardless of whether he attacked.
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I don’t disagree with this point. We can’t have Russians amassing on borders and destroying countries simply off of the threat that implies. The thing is with the Europeans we have to be United or our power is dwindled down to military action. At least in this case.

Maybe the Brits would join us in preemptive sanctions but if that backfires and Putin uses it as the excuse for invasion then we will have a fractured alliance with some euros blaming us.

Our strength is in the alliance unless we go the military route which is really not an option for so many obvious reasons.

We’ll see where ends up if he goes. Too far west and nato missiles will be within range of Russian troops. Too far along the Black Sea might provoke a skirmishes and even a blockade.

If he half asses it and Donbas is the pound of flesh then we will see where the NATO alliance’s resolve is.

I tend to think they want Zelinski out so that is probably the mission. Tough to be the Ukrainian President right now. I don’t dislike him. They have held up well so far. My biggest concern is that roll over and my second biggest concern is that they unload on the Russians. It’s a dangerous time.
 
UsualName said:
I don’t disagree with this point. We can’t have Russians amassing on borders and destroying countries simply off of the threat that implies. The thing is with the Europeans we have to be United or our power is dwindled down to military action. At least in this case.

Maybe the Brits would join us in preemptive sanctions but if that backfires and Putin uses it as the excuse for invasion then we will have a fractured alliance with some euros blaming us.

Our strength is in the alliance unless we go the military route which is really not an option for so many obvious reasons.

We’ll see where ends up if he goes. Too far west and nato missiles will be within range of Russian troops. Too far along the Black Sea might provoke a skirmishes and even a blockade.

If he half asses it and Donbas is the pound of flesh then we will see where the NATO alliance’s resolve is.

I tend to think they want Zelinski out so that is probably the mission. Tough to be the Ukrainian President right now. I don’t dislike him. They have held up well so far. My biggest concern is that roll over and my second biggest concern is that they unload on the Russians. It’s a dangerous time.
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Preemptive sanctions is just Lindsay stupidity. Hit them when they step out of line
 
There have issues made of the US divulging not only our troop movements and weaponry assistance it also exposing what we know about how Russia will proceed if they begin an attack. I say this strategy benefits us more than selective disclosure. It puts the Russians on their heels in terms of how they proceed it also protects us from accusations of arming Ukraine through back channels, etc. All for the good.

Blinken lays out the Russian plan:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...unich-Conference-artillery-rings-Ukraine.html

96CA4B41-0555-4076-A769-DF6B6FE86D22.jpeg
 
All this aid we're giving to Ukraine, I have to think part of that aid is cyber-security. Or it should be at least. What a great opportunity to see how good our stuff really is.
 
UsualName said:
There have issues made of the US divulging not only our troop movements and weaponry assistance it also exposing what we know about how Russia will proceed if they begin an attack. I say this strategy benefits us more than selective disclosure. It puts the Russians on their heels in terms of how they proceed it also protects us from accusations of arming Ukraine through back channels, etc. All for the good.

Blinken lays out the Russian plan:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...unich-Conference-artillery-rings-Ukraine.html
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Yup. the pre-debunking of the fake pretexts that the ruskies would/are attempting is absolutely necessary.

But I would have pushed even harder.

Blinken should have said "you keep telling us that you have withdrawn troops. Tell us where you have done that so that we can compare that with "our assessment and be assured by your statements." After all, this is just supposed to be a training exercise and Putin says he has no plans to attack so it is not like we are asking the enemy to give battlefield postions away. YEH RIGHT.
 
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