Russia & Ukraine

Tsing Tao said:
Yes, and then the world would be a wonderful place for the next 20,000 years or so.
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And this is the bind. Putin invaded countries, levels cities, puts bounties on American soldiers heads, poisons, murders, oppresses, etc but we are paralyzed because of we confront him there will be untold destruction.

I am not for living in that fear. I am totally against it as a matter of fact. We either stop the Russians when we can or let them grow into a monster we can’t stop. History has not smiled on appeasement.
 
CaptainObvious said:
Not a chance in hell of that. To save Ukraine? No how, no way. If it would expand throughout europe, which it could, then yes, the entire world goes to hell. No winners, only losers, and the lucky ones die in the intial days.
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So I did not say using nukes on Ukraine, stated on nato lands. However, Russia using nuclear weapons on Ukraine is a threat to us as well and I would not be surprised if we acted to stop a nuclear strike on Ukraine but would we counter, I honestly don’t know what the right answer to that would be.
 
TreeFrogTrader said:
I think that would be the mindset of Putin.

What complicates things a bit these days for him, is that the Chinese do not want a nuke war. They have a lot to lose and do not necessarily share Putin's desire to go full Armegeddon just to cap off his legacy and to restore Russian glory, whatever that is. The Chinese support Putin in public but they are plenty pissed at him because he has given invading and annexing old territory a bad name and a very bad look. The Chinese definitely do not want Taiwan back looking like Aleppo- although Putin is fine with that and already three quarters of the way there.

Yes, if left to himself, Put would lop a tactical nuke into the sea or out in the countryside just to get people's attention. I don't know think the Chinese would allow that though and if Putin did it, well, it's Russia and North Korea against the world then. The Chinese just want Putin to advance their belt and road initiative in the region and to control al the Uyghars in the central asian republics that are beginning to gang up on China. He doesnt want to buy into every problem that goes with Putin.

What a mess.
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It is a mess. While I'm skeptical about the number of Russian casualties being estimated Putin and his troops are getting their asses handed to them none the less. Total failure of the plan as they wrote it up, but now he's in it neck deep and looks like a pussy if he backs off, and that is worse than death in his mind. He launches a tactical nuke or two trying to gain the momentum, waits for a response. If the NATO countries counter with nukes he'll say it's NATO that is escalating and he has to respond in kind. It all goes to hell rather quickly after that, which is why I believe that NATO does not respond with Nukes. Sure, he wins something in Ukraine for a bit, but Russia and it's people are fucked for years to come. Putin rides it out in his palace until they finally take him out.
 
UsualName said:
So I did not say using nukes on Ukraine, stated on nato lands. However, Russia using nuclear weapons on Ukraine is a threat to us as well and I would not be surprised if we acted to stop a nuclear strike on Ukraine but would we counter, I honestly don’t know what the right answer to that would be.
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Yes, Putin using nukes in Ukraine presents an escalation of a global threat which will make the world a different place. I suspect it would open the door for the use of limited nukes as the norm as time passes. In this present situation though one tough question will have to be answered. How many hundreds of millions of lives do we risk to save one country? Do we risk a global catastrophe from which there is no coming back to anything like normal civilization for decades, probably centuries to come. We need some real experts in diplomacy and they seem to be in short order. Well, as we use to say, pray to whatever power you believe in for peace, but prepare for war cause it's been awhile since God seems to have given a shit.
 
OMG, why would Putin use nukes? It makes zero geo-strategic sense. He does not want to level the Ukraine, what would he possibly have to gain from this? He does not run out of money any time soon and can play the longer game, although it was obviously preferred to get it done quickly but the plan failed. He will intensify the attacks without any need for chemicals or nukes and in the end Ukraine will give what he demands, a promise to never apply for EU or Nato membership, or else an immediate additional invasion.

This is crystal clear from the decisions, made so far. He could have easily blown up a nuclear reactor with a similar effect than a nuke yet he chose not to. People have to stop reading the ridiculous fairy tales on social media and have to start actually carefully watching what Putin does.

Instead people believe things on social media that are based on the following...how weird...

Ukraine-rus-losses~2.png


Based on another Twitter feed. Basically based on NOTHING. Totally fact less and baseless
 
M.W. said:
OMG, why would Putin use nukes? It makes zero geo-strategic sense. He does not want to level the Ukraine, what would he possibly have to gain from this?....
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Gave a like to this but only so far as he will certainly not use nukes any time soon and probably not at all. He is crazy but he doesn't want to die while he still has an iron grip on the Russia people.

Once he finally loses his grip (especially losing his grip on reality) all bets are off and somebody better be their to take "the keys away from him".
 
That's the only rational assessment. And he appeared pretty sane and in control of his brain cells so far (other than having miscalculated a few things which even Churchill and most other long standing statesmen fell pray to, meaning, making mistakes). Compare that with the senile current leader of another superpower who can hardly get a full sentence out of his mouth without confusing the first woman or name of the country the current invasion is taking place in. The second in command is not any better and has pretty much zero intelligence nor experience on any international stage. Putin speaks multiple languages, has served in foreign countries and has run international negotiations for decades.

Of course rational decisions are only made as long as the person remains rational.

SunTrader said:
Gave a like to this but only so far as he will certainly not use nukes any time soon and probably not at all. He is crazy but he doesn't want to die while he still has an iron grip on the Russia people.

Once he finally loses his grip (especially losing his grip on reality) all bets are off and somebody better be their to take "the keys away from him".
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