Russia & Ukraine

Tsing Tao said:
But that isn't what you said. You said "so what, everyone gets a job on an oil rig?" We were talking about who Russians work for and crippling their economy.

But, lets talk import then.

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Cars, packaged equipment, broadcasting equipment, computers...all stuff that comes from China and Germany. China mostly. That's not going to change. Take a look at the graphic. Where is it you propose to "hit them"?

What items do you think China can't give them that's on that list?

And while we're discussing imports, lets talk about all the attack helicopters France gave Russia in 2014, right around the Crimea time. Or Germany with assault vehicles. Or Italy with transports.
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And this is where swift exclusion bites and will ultimately eliminate a significant amount of the Russian economy, and this is why I have said if allowed to go on it will push Russia into dependence on China. Not being able to make payments in and out of Russia into the western world will wear on Russia. Not to mention their economy is itself in a current state of emergency, stock market closed, ruble worthless, interest rates high, inflation high and all overnight.

The Russians will feel significant pain and there will be a large contraction.

Now you say, well they can get what they are missing from China and I say yes! That is their move. However, when you become solely dependent on one supplier you are now at their mercy amd China isn’t playing for price gouging they want airports and mineral rights.
 
UsualName said:
And this is where swift exclusion bites and will ultimately eliminate a significant amount of the Russian economy, and this is why I have said if allowed to go on it will push Russia into dependence on China. Not being able to make payments in and out of Russia into the western world will wear on Russia. Not to mention their economy is itself in a current state of emergency, stock market closed, ruble worthless, interest rates high, inflation high and all overnight.

The Russians will feel significant pain and there will be a large contraction.

Now you say, well they can get what they are missing from China and I say yes! That is their move. However, when you become solely dependent on one supplier you are now at their mercy amd China isn’t playing for price gouging they want airports and mineral rights.
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There is no doubt that banning them or severely limiting SWIFT usage will wear them down. But again, the West isn't going to stop SWIFT usage on the energy and mineral complex. They need it too much. So the bite you're talking about will be significantly blunted.

China gets wheat from Russia, Russia gets ...stuff from China. When China is their only supplier for most things, they'll be a lot like the good ol' US of A.
 
https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...ready-there-00012340?utm_source=pocket-newtab

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Tony Stark said:
https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...ready-there-00012340?utm_source=pocket-newtab

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Reynolds: And then there’s the nuclear element. Many people have thought that we’d never see a large ground war in Europe or a direct confrontation between NATO and Russia, because it could quickly escalate into a nuclear conflict. How close are we getting to that?

Hill: Well, we’re right there. Basically, what President Putin has said quite explicitly in recent days is that if anybody interferes in Ukraine, they will be met with a response that they’ve “never had in [their] history.” And he has put Russia’s nuclear forces on high alert. So he’s making it very clear that nuclear is on the table.


Putin tried to warn Trump about this, but I don’t think Trump figured out what he was saying. In one of the last meetings between Putin and Trump when I was there, Putin was making the point that: “Well you know, Donald, we have these hypersonic missiles.” And Trump was saying, “Well, we will get them too.” Putin was saying, “Well, yes, you will get them eventually, but we’ve got them first.” There was a menace in this exchange. Putin was putting us on notice that if push came to shove in some confrontational environment that the nuclear option would be on the table.

Reynolds: Do you really think he’ll use a nuclear weapon?

Hill: The thing about Putin is, if he has an instrument, he wants to use it. Why have it if you can’t? He’s already used a nuclear weapon in some respects. Russian operatives poisoned Alexander Litvinenko with radioactive polonium and turned him into a human dirty bomb and polonium was spread all around London at every spot that poor man visited. He died a horrible death as a result.

The Russians have already used a weapons-grade nerve agent, Novichok. They’ve used it possibly several times, but for certain twice. Once in Salisbury, England, where it was rubbed all over the doorknob of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, who actually didn’t die; but the nerve agent contaminated the city of Salisbury, and anybody else who came into contact with it got sickened. Novichok killed a British citizen, Dawn Sturgess, because the assassins stored it in a perfume bottle which was discarded into a charity donation box where it was found by Sturgess and her partner. There was enough nerve agent in that bottle to kill several thousand people. The second time was in Alexander Navalny’s underpants.

So if anybody thinks that Putin wouldn’t use something that he’s got that is unusual and cruel, think again. Every time you think, “No, he wouldn’t, would he?” Well, yes, he would. And he wants us to know that, of course.

It’s not that we should be intimidated and scared. That’s exactly what he wants us to be. We have to prepare for those contingencies and figure out what is it that we’re going to do to head them off.
 
Bugenhagen said:
They have been developmentally isolated and every population has its minority cons and lib majority set in brain biology. I give them a pass for now as it's a phase poor and isolated/corrupt nations go through. Many I know in Louisiana are no better :)

Poland is also really institutionally racist for similar reasons. But its still better than under Putin..
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Yeah Poland went full anti semite after the war.....weird how surviving makes you hate those who were killed.
 
gwb-trading said:
It's a worldwide phenomena. Covid-denier promoters suddenly come crawling out of the closet as Putin propagandists.

Australian online anti-vaccine groups switch to Putin praise and Ukraine conspiracies
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ocus-to-putin-praise-and-ukraine-conspiracies
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Online anti-vax Covid-denier groups show their true colors of digital hate with pro-Putin disinformation on Ukraine.

Pro-Putin Disinformation on Ukraine Is Thriving in Online Anti-Vax Groups
All the usual themes: Secret government alliances, anti-Semitic tropes, and nefarious scientists.
https://www.motherjones.com/politic...kraine-is-thriving-in-online-anti-vax-groups/
 
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