Russia & Ukraine

So according to your logic, if Putin is today’s Hitler, then you would not fight, you would just be Ok with other folks sacrifices. It’s not happening in America after all, right?

If we did that, that is, attack Russia because we think Putin is Hitler "reincarnated",
then we would be making the same mistake that Russia has made in Ukraine. In my opinion,
if we are attacked, we fight. But only if we (or a NATO member) are attacked.
 
If we did that, that is, attack Russia because we think Putin is Hitler "reincarnated",
then we would be making the same mistake that Russia has made in Ukraine. In my opinion,
if we are attacked, we fight. But only if we (or a NATO member) are attacked.

It sounds logical that, if the enemy bombs you from inside his own country, you can bomb him in his country too.
Or should you just let you get slaughtered? Which is what is happening in Ukraine right now.

Putin is breaking all the international laws and human rights. And the counterparty should then carefully respect all laws? That's like fighting bare handed against a man who has a knife or a gun. Who will win the fight you think?

Defenders should legally be admitted to apply exactly the same tactics that the occupier uses. In Russia's case there a no respected laws at all.
 
The only reason Ukraine has higher military spending now compared to the times they were actually invaded is because Russia sucked at overpowering them at the start, kind of overlooking that part aren't you.

At the start Russia didn't intend to fight at all. They just wanted to threaten.
They immediately started negotiating and would withdraw within a week on acceptable terms
But one big western country wanted a war
 
At the start Russia didn't intend to fight at all. They just wanted to threaten.
I don't believe that, but if true, they bit off more than they could chew, so they deserve what's coming. Hopefully the west send them into the stone age, they wont pull that stunt again.
 
At the start Russia didn't intend to fight at all. They just wanted to threaten.
They immediately started negotiating and would withdraw within a week on acceptable terms
But one big western country wanted a war

There was nothing to negotiate.Demands by threat of violence isn't negotiations.


Russias method of negotiating got them 800 miles of NATO on their border(Finland) less than 150 miles from St Petersberg and hundreds of thousands of dead Russians.
 
At the start Russia didn't intend to fight at all. They just wanted to threaten.
They immediately started negotiating and would withdraw within a week on acceptable terms
But one big western country wanted a war

This has got to be the stupidest thing posted to ET in recent weeks.

Putin and his cronies are aggressively pursuing their plan to reunite the former Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact as the "new Russia". Their plan is to use military might to brutally conquer nearby countries to achieve their goal.

This is demonstrated in their behavior. For years, Putin and Russia has attacked nearby countries -- including seizing Crimea in 2014.

Every night on Russian TV, the propagandists outline how Putin will seize Poland, the Baltic countries and other countries next.
 
So why wait then? Join up at your local centre and go fight the Rusians?

Let's take a look at the future for Russians in Ukraine.

Putin Should Worry: Ukraine Has 40,000 Troop ‘Storm Brigades’ Ready for War
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...roop-storm-brigades-ready-for-war/ar-AA19VYfq

Ukraine War Update: The Ukrainian military is setting up eight “storm brigades” of 40,000 troops each to lead the way in the upcoming counteroffensive.

According to recent reports, the Ukrainian General Staff is standing up these elite units to push back Russian forces as far out of Ukraine as possible.

Storm Brigades for Ukraine
The Ukrainian military intends to mix the storm brigades with more experienced units in the upcoming counteroffensive.

To attract more recruits, the Ukrainian military has given flashy names to the new units, including Hurricane, Spartan, Chervona Kalyna, Frontier, Rage, Azov and Kara Dag, and Border of Steel.

Key to the creation of these units is Western training and support. The United States and the United Kingdom, in particular, have provided key, continued support to the Ukrainian military.

“We are putting all of these pieces together to provide full, lasting, combat-credible capabilities covering all of the steps from the donation, to the training, to the maintenance and sustainment.

The substantial resources the United States has committed to Ukraine reflects the American interests and values that are at stake,” a senior U.S. defense official stated recently during a press briefing at the Pentagon.

Eight storm brigades of 40,000 men each would amount to 320,000 troops. That is no small number. More than 13 months in to the war, the Ukrainian military has suffered heavy casualties. Western intelligence estimates put the number of total Ukrainian casualties to more than 100,000, though more of them are wounded than dead.

Despite the existential threat posed by the Russian invasion, Ukraine is still using a volunteer military. Kyiv is pushing hard to recruit more troops to make up for the losses it’s taking on the ground. There is, justifiably, a lot of talk about the high Russian casualties (between 180,000 and 220,000, according to the latest estimates), but there isn’t a lot of information about the Ukrainian losses.

Kyiv has shrewdly masked the actual number of losses it has suffered in the war so far. But Western intelligence estimates assess that they are on par—maybe on the lower end—with the Russian losses. The biggest difference between the two militaries is that the Ukrainian military have suffered more wounded than killed compared to the Russian forces.

(More at above url)

 
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Let's take a look at the future for Russians in Ukraine.

Putin Should Worry: Ukraine Has 40,000 Troop ‘Storm Brigades’ Ready for War
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...roop-storm-brigades-ready-for-war/ar-AA19VYfq

Ukraine War Update: The Ukrainian military is setting up eight “storm brigades” of 40,000 troops each to lead the way in the upcoming counteroffensive.

According to recent reports, the Ukrainian General Staff is standing up these elite units to push back Russian forces as far out of Ukraine as possible.

Storm Brigades for Ukraine
The Ukrainian military intends to mix the storm brigades with more experienced units in the upcoming counteroffensive.

To attract more recruits, the Ukrainian military has given flashy names to the new units, including Hurricane, Spartan, Chervona Kalyna, Frontier, Rage, Azov and Kara Dag, and Border of Steel.

Key to the creation of these units is Western training and support. The United States and the United Kingdom, in particular, have provided key, continued support to the Ukrainian military.

“We are putting all of these pieces together to provide full, lasting, combat-credible capabilities covering all of the steps from the donation, to the training, to the maintenance and sustainment.

The substantial resources the United States has committed to Ukraine reflects the American interests and values that are at stake,” a senior U.S. defense official stated recently during a press briefing at the Pentagon.

Eight storm brigades of 40,000 men each would amount to 320,000 troops. That is no small number. More than 13 months in to the war, the Ukrainian military has suffered heavy casualties. Western intelligence estimates put the number of total Ukrainian casualties to more than 100,000, though more of them are wounded than dead.

Despite the existential threat posed by the Russian invasion, Ukraine is still using a volunteer military. Kyiv is pushing hard to recruit more troops to make up for the losses it’s taking on the ground. There is, justifiably, a lot of talk about the high Russian casualties (between 180,000 and 220,000, according to the latest estimates), but there isn’t a lot of information about the Ukrainian losses.

Kyiv has shrewdly masked the actual number of losses it has suffered in the war so far. But Western intelligence estimates assess that they are on par—maybe on the lower end—with the Russian losses. The biggest difference between the two militaries is that the Ukrainian military have suffered more wounded than killed compared to the Russian forces.

(More at above url)

There are other dimensions to that storm brigade scenario too.

One, is that the Ukrainians are receiving or will be receiving armored troop carriers from the west. Those puppies move fast, and can place troops in strike positions fast. So they are starting to train troops to match the capabilities of the new equipment.

Two. The Ukrainians strength is in flexibility and mobility and striking and regrouping. The Ruskies strength is in the WW1 stuff. Daily artillery pounding, trench warfare grinding it out.

As a practical matter the Ukrainians have to deal with the dug-in Bhakmut type confrontations. Where the Russians pound with artillery and move two yards a week, and the Ukrainians pound back. But the strike brigades will allow them to have highly mobile units not bogged down and able to do move around while other troops are fixed. The Russians do brute force. They cannot handle change that well. All those trenches they are digging is WW1 bullshit. This is 2023. The trenches just serve as places for drones to find concentrated toops predictably.
 
Defenders should legally be admitted to apply exactly the same tactics that the occupier uses.

Same or more. If my neighbor invades my house with a knife, I am entitled to use whatever I may have to get him out dead or alive. I am not going to put the shotgun down and go get a knife just because I want to "play fair" according to him.
 
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