Quote from a_person:
Jewish homeland means squat to me.
Thanks for your honesty. I am not surprised though.
No more than Christian purity means anything to me in Norway, or Islamic purity means to me in Saudi Arabia. It wouldn't bother me at all if half my country converted to atheism (which they have), or Judaism for that matter. Nor would it bother me if half my country would be of none-Norwegian ethnicities in 2050 (this is projected). It's not the governments business what people believe in, and it's certainly not their business who the peoples ancestors are.
But I wouldn't expect a religious fundamentalist like you to understand this.
Quote from a_person:
So if you're accusing me of advocating for a none arab-frei Israel, you are absolutely right.
20% of Israeli citizens are arabs. 0% of Gaza, West Bank, Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi .... citizens are jews.
I condemn them just as much for every Jew they threw out. But the current conflict is not between Israel and the Arab world as a whole any longer; if the Arab world leaders where united behind the Palestinians, your gasoline would be a bit more expensive. The current conflict is between those who lived there and those who live there, between those who had the land and those who have land.
Quote from a_person:
If you are accusing me of advocating for the removal of Jews
I am accusing you of advocating for the removal of the only jewish state on the planet. Whether you call it a one state solution or the right of return is irrelevant as the end result will still be 24 arab states and zero jewish states. That you don't care about religious and ethnic states is also irrelevant as the rest of the planet does care about their ethnic and religious roots. We have an Italian state, a German state, a Japanese state, two Korean states 23 Arab states, 100 muslim states... None of those states is about to give up their religious or ethnic identity. 95% of the states on the planet are ethnic, religious or both, why don't you deal with them first instead of limiting your <del>struggle</del> jihad to the only Jewish state on the planet.
I'm not talking about anybody giving up their religious identity, nor their ethnic identity. None of this has got anything to do with what I said, if there where a 100 or even a thousand Arab states, it would still not make any difference. The current conflict of today, as said, is between those who used to live on the land and those who now live on the land. That's the only real issue.
This obviously brings us back to the history - to whether the land was empty wasteland or populated before Zionism came along, and to who this population was. You have made some claims that changes the ethnicity of millions of people and basically deletes their heritage. If your claims are true, I would agree with you that Palestinians have no right to demand the return. If you can provide the conclusive evidence you surely must have, I assure you I will fold. However, if it turns out this was just a lie so you could make Israel look better, you will have revealed yourself as no better than those who deny the holocaust in order to make Nazis look better.
Here are the claims that need documentation:
-Most of the land was unpopulated desert
-The jews migrated to the area in accordance with the law of the land at the time and with the permission of local authorities
-The arabs were also migrating to the area during the same timeframe and in equal numbers
-At the time of the partition the area was populated by arabs and jews legally residing there and the partition was therefore the only viable solution
The conclusion of these points is that Palestinians are a myth, that they're actually Egyptians, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Jordanians who had no more ties to the land and no more history in the land than the immigrating European Jews, right? Bring forth the evidence!
Quote from a_person:
You suggested that having Denmark under us and Iceland to the west should somehow make us feel safe from the Russians.
You completely misunderstood my point. I said that it's easy to be a hero when you're surrounded by monsters like Sweden and Denmark. Unfortunately when your next door neighbor is muscle-flexing imperialist Russia or when you're squeezed between Syria, Egypt, Hezbollah and Hamas your attitude tends to be a tad different and a lot more realistic.
I see. Well, let me put it this way; If Russia had a beef with us, that was strictly limited to us and Russia (like Barents Sea oil fields), I'd rather have a small, limited war between Norway and Russia where the Russians ran us over like they're running over Georgia now, than to have a full-scale world war between the entire NATO on one side and Russia with friends on the other. Avoiding world war for some local issues is not just best for the world, it's best for us as well. That's if our beef was strictly between Norway and Russia, as the South Ossetia- and Abkhazia-issue is limited to Russia/Georgia and not the world. If Russia attacked us for being NATO on the other hand, things would be very different.
Saakashvili have been very loud calling the Russians barbarians and blaming the West for letting it happen, while officially the conflict never had anything to do with the West.
