Russa Invades Georgia - Full Scale Invasion

Well, just as we know there are organized groups exerting pressure in Internet discussion forums, we also learn while kids in school that governments exert propaganda through the media. There is no question that media preparations had been made from georgian, russian and others who were involved.

John McCain got rockets fired after him by the separatist when he visited Georgia in 2006, so I'm sure he is not on friendly terms with the minority groups or at all sympathetic to their cause. Frankly, McCain's rhetoric against Russia is worrysome and reminds of how Bush had bad intentions towards arab nations. Souring direct relations with Russia would be much worse though (for Europe and longer term the US), since Europe is now more invested in it's relationship and co-growth with Russia. There are voices in the US saying they see Russia as getting more and more powerful with it's energy supplies and huge agricultural potential, and presented on news organizations like CNN.

In the aftermath it is all about perceptions to win political capital and support for the respective leadership politics. This again translates into diplomatic leverage and political points for strategies.

The focus is now on the threat that Russia poses. No doubt this was the expected outcome from this conflict, as obvious as it was.

Thankfully, we have something like the Internet where free people can communicate and discuss on a serious level about current affairs. Thus politicians or news organizations do not offer the only input for public opinion. People are smarter nowadays - or we can say that people have more options to form an independent opinion based with a more balanced and broader input about the background and facts about political events.

I dislike the organized efforts by some groups to sabotage this, but I would rather that they exist than not. It is just necessary to create systems so that they are robust against ALL attempts of disinformation or corrupting the access to balanced/objective information, and such persons and organizations are exposed for what they are so we can continue to stay well informed, using critical thinking and being fully aware of what is going on.
 
Of course they won't condemn it, they simply hate America and the protests are simply a smokescreen.

If you go into the link provided you can read an opinion letter and that should explain the ass backwards thinking of the "protesters".

Because the Ossetians were mostly Russian and held Russian passports they should have been allowed to succeed freely.

Based on that, I'm sure Ireland and other European countries with large enclaves of muslims would welcome them claiming part of their country and succeeding as well.

Idiots. Exactly why I would never spend a dime in any of those countries or San Francisco.






Quote from a_person:

Will anti-US camp condemn Russia?

IN 2003, about 100,000 Irish people, and many millions more around the world, marched in protest at what they saw as the violation by the United States of the sovereignty of an independent country. No matter that the leader of this particular nation was a sociopathic dictator, a man who believed even the most depraved acts justified if they served his purpose...The flames of indignation in this country were fanned to a great extent by the various anti-war organisations, and a number of their spokespersons briefly became household names.
...
Given the fact, therefore, that such organisations have proved themselves to be so commendably anti-war (notwithstanding their silence regarding China's support of the genocidal regime in Khartoum), I look forward to their vociferous condemnation of the Russian invasion of Georgia.

I anticipate that the Irish people will marshal in support of Georgia's independence, in much the same way they did for Iraq. I look forward to participating in the mass marches that the anti-war organisations will surely organise against Russia's truculence. I also look forward to the anti-war protesters monopolising the airwaves, as they did in 2003, to denounce the Kremlin's belligerence towards Tblisi.

I have no doubt that all of the above will occur, and that Russia's actions will be roundly condemned. I have checked the websites of the most prominent Irish protest groups, and while there is nothing whatsoever on the illegal Russian invasion of Georgian territory, I assume this will be quickly remedied.

Excuse me, though, if I don't hold my breath. Anti-war in this country and in many across the world, often seems merely a euphemism for anti-Americanism.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/will-antius-camp-condemn-russia-1451551.html
More...
 
Watching the CNNI live interview with Saakashvili at 15:00 CET today, it's becoming so clear that this guy is a warmonger. He deftly said "the nice thing about democracies are that they consolidate with support in time of crisis like this."

He said it all really.
 
Georgia sues Russia over 'ethnic cleansing'

Georgia has filed a lawsuit against Russia at the International Court of Justice over alleged ethnic cleansing, the Georgian National Security Council secretary said.

"The suit contains material showing that Russia has committed ethnic cleansing against Georgia [during three interventions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia] from 1993 to 2008," Alexander Lomaya said.

He said the suit, which was submitted Tuesday, was immediately accepted for consideration and a preliminary investigation had already started.
...
On May 15 this year, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution acknowledging ethnic cleansing in Abkhazia and called for the return of Georgian refugees. Some 300,000 Georgians fled Abkhazia during a vicious war in the early 1990s that led to the region's de facto independence.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080813/116004055.html


Georgia alleged that the fighting erupted after a series of actions by Moscow and Russian-backed separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia intended to prepare "for the unlawful assertion of independence from Georgia."
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/13/europe/EU-World-Court-Georgia-Russia.php
 
Quote from a_person:

Georgia sues Russia over 'ethnic cleansing'

Georgia has filed a lawsuit against Russia at the International Court of Justice over alleged ethnic cleansing, the Georgian National Security Council secretary said.

"The suit contains material showing that Russia has committed ethnic cleansing against Georgia [during three interventions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia] from 1993 to 2008," Alexander Lomaya said.

He said the suit, which was submitted Tuesday, was immediately accepted for consideration and a preliminary investigation had already started.
...
On May 15 this year, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution acknowledging ethnic cleansing in Abkhazia and called for the return of Georgian refugees. Some 300,000 Georgians fled Abkhazia during a vicious war in the early 1990s that led to the region's de facto independence.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080813/116004055.html


Georgia alleged that the fighting erupted after a series of actions by Moscow and Russian-backed separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia intended to prepare "for the unlawful assertion of independence from Georgia."
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/13/europe/EU-World-Court-Georgia-Russia.php
More...

Oh, boy. What junk. I think they have this twisted around. I doubt anything will come of it. I still see no relevance to talking about Israel here.
 
Quote from bwolinsky:

Oh, boy. What junk. I think they have this twisted around. I doubt anything will come of it.
More...
I could be wrong about it but I think the court does not accept cases for consideration unless they are filed with substantial preliminary evidence. I wonder why it's so hard to imagine that Russia could be involved in genocide or ethnic cleansing after what they had done in Chechnya and Afghanistan.

Quote from bwolinsky:

I still see no relevance to talking about Israel here.
More...
Hmm, I agree. I am not sure why you're addressing this to me though as I am not the one who keeps bringing Israel up, I've been saying all along that Israel has nothing to do with this war while a few other posters keep reciting "the Protocols".
 
Interesting how the consequences could play themselves out ... wonder if everything was considered beforehand? The question about Iran is undoubtly the most interesting short/medium term here.

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JH14Ak02.html
Georgia's Israeli arms point Russia to Iran
By Peter Hirschberg

JERUSALEM - With the eruption of fighting between Russia and Georgia, Israel has found itself in an awkward position as a result of its arms sales to Georgia. Israel is now caught between its friendly relations with Georgia and its fear that the continued sale of weaponry will spark Russian retribution in the form of increased arms sales to Iran and Syria.

After fighting broke out late last week between Georgia and Russia over the breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Israel's Foreign Ministry over the weekend recommended suspending the sale of all weapons and defense-related equipment to Georgia, the daily Ha'aretz newspaper reported.
...
Israel's immediate concern is that Russia will proceed with the sale of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system to Iran, which would help it defend its nuclear installations from aerial attack. Israel, like the US, believes that Iran's nuclear program is aimed at developing a bomb, and Israeli leaders have refused to rule out the possibility of a pre-emptive strike aimed at derailing Iran's nuclear aspirations.
...
Israel's relations with Georgia have been close, partly because there is a large Georgian Jewish community in Israel. In recent years, ties have also taken on a military dimension, with military industries in Israel supplying Georgia with some US$200 million worth of equipment since 2000. This has included remotely piloted planes, rockets, night-vision equipment, other electronic systems and training by former senior Israeli officers.
...
 
Quote from Gringinho:

Interesting how the consequences could play themselves out ... wonder if everything was considered beforehand? The question about Iran is undoubtly the most interesting short/medium term here.
More...

I think that the fools that preciptated this are quite possibly so full of themselves that they are incapable of thinking things through properly.

One of the things that may have shocked Washington is the ease and speed with which the Russian military routed the Georgians. In particular the necons like to bask in the supposed omnipotance of the Western military and the extremists view it as some sort of worldwide civilizing force. No doubt this view was extended to the Georgian military due to it's US and Israeli training and assistance. This has to be a bit of a wakeup call.
 
More and more of the world press is now seeing how Taakashvili had a virtual media onslaught prepared for the aftermath of the conflict. However, the USA never needed Georgia's leaders to stay in power - they still win big on what has come out of this, as they would in any realistically probable scenario. The preparations of the georgian leadership for this media aftermath and "winning hearts and minds" also is an indication of how this was not merely a fluke attack set in motion by a madman - but rather an orchestrated event with strategic goals external to Georgia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7559855.stm
The US humanitarian mission serves a range of purposes. As well as providing aid to many thousands of displaced Georgians, it also sends a range of political messages.

It goes some way to responding to the concerns of many Georgians who believe Uncle Sam was not there for them when they needed him, and it tells the Russians that Washington is not backing away from the country it has described as a "beacon of democracy".

There is something of a military subtext too. The US is to use its navy and air force for this mission and warned the Russians that they must keep all transport infrastructure open. So, no more blocking major roads and no interference with ports or airspace.

There is no hint whatsoever that the US would be prepared to use military force against the Russians - far from it. But bringing American forces into the equation on the ground is an implicit warning to the Russians to back off. No one wants an accidental confrontation which could turn into something worse.
...
Certainly the Russians believe the US faces a choice.

"At some time," said the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, "it will be necessary [for the US] to chose between supporting this virtual project [Georgia] and real partnership [with Russia]".

US Secretary of State Rice rejected that as a false choice and accused some in Russia of harking back to the days of the Cold War. But Russia is not alone in wanting to entrench its influence. The North Atlantic powers are trying to do the same in Russia's old back yard, and Russia has clearly decided enough is enough.
...
 
Quote from dcraig:

the necons like to bask in the supposed omnipotance of the Western military and the extremists view it as some sort of worldwide civilizing force. No doubt this view was extended to the Georgian military
More...
Please tell me you are kidding. Russia has more tanks than Georgia has soldiers, Russia has 4 times more women alone serving in the military than the entire size of the Georgian army. Then again for a person who seriously claims that Stalin's occupation of Eastern Europe had nothing to do with the expansionism of the Communist ideology and was a purely defensive measure you probably are not kidding.

Reading posts like yours (and a few others) I am beginning to think that mental institutions all over the world provide unlimited internet access for their patients.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top