Rumor? DNA tests after missiles strike 'Saddam convoy'

Can we say r a l l y if this is confirmed? I remember the 20 pt melt up in the ES when a dead-Saddam rumor hit the markets way back when.

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,982710,00.html

DNA tests after missiles strike 'Saddam convoy'

Human remains removed after US Hellfire missiles target source of dictator's satellite phone call

Jason Burke in Baghdad
Sunday June 22, 2003
The Observer

American specialists were carrying out DNA tests last night on human remains believed by US military sources to be those of Saddam Hussein and one of his sons, The Observer can reveal.

The remains were retrieved from a convoy of vehicles struck last week by US forces following 'firm' information that the former Iraqi leader and members of his family were travelling in the Western Desert near Syria.

Military sources told The Observer that the strikes, involving an undisclosed number of Hellfire missiles, were launched against the convoy last Wednesday after the interception of a satellite telephone conversation involving either Saddam or his sons.

The operation, which has not yet been disclosed by the Pentagon, involved the United States air force and ground troops of the Third Armoured Cavalry Regiment based around Ramadi, a major town 70 miles west of Baghdad.

Despite previously unfounded US claims that Saddam had been killed during the bombing of Baghdad before the invasion by America and Britain, the sources indicated that they were cautiously optimistic that they had finally killed the target they described as 'the top man'.

Asked about rumours circulating in senior military circles about the incident, one US officer with knowledge of the raid on the convoy said: 'That is unreleasable information. The Pentagon has to release that information.'

The Pentagon last night refused to comment on what it called 'operational matters'. However, other military sources indicated they were optimistic the tests would show that Saddam and at least one of his two sons, Uday and Qusay, were among the dead, although they stressed that a conclusive identification of the men killed in the attack had not yet been made.

The convoy, composed of several four-wheel-drive luxury vehicles, was attacked after the telephone call was intercepted. An air strike was then organised.

The sources confirmed that Uday Hussein, the deposed dictator's eldest son, was thought to have been travelling with his father in the convoy. The convoy is believed to have been heading for the Syrian border and was intercepted near the frontier town of Qaim. Several such convoys heading for the border were destroyed during the conflict in March and April.

Another US military source confirmed that there was 'an incident in the Western Desert' and said that information about it was 'unreleasable pending verification'. Other sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, revealed that they were awaiting confirmation that the remains were those of Saddam and Uday following full DNA tests. It was not known when the tests would be completed, but the sources indicated it was 'imminent'.

The attack on the convoy came two days after US authorities captured Abid Hamad Mahmud, one of Saddam's top aides. The Washington Post reported yesterday that Mahmud, who was seized by American Special Forces near Saddam's home town of Tikrit, had provided information about Saddam's whereabouts.

The paper reported that Mahmud had told US authorities that the deposed Iraqi leader and his two sons survived the war and that the sons, along with the aide, escaped to Syria, only to be forced to return to Iraq.

The officials said the aide had described a plan by Hussein and his sons to split up to increase their chances of survival as US forces closed in on Baghdad in April. Mahmud was captured last Monday in a raid near the Iraqi city of Tikrit that also netted a number of other, less senior Saddam Hussein loyalists, officials said. But neither the deposed Iraqi President nor his sons were with Mahmud.

'We're not yet sure he's telling the truth,' one senior defence official said of Mahmud's information. 'He could simply be reciting a set of talking points.'

However, the report, from the most significant member of Saddam's government caught so far, contributed to an increasing sense among US authorities last week that the net was closing on the ex-Iraqi leader, who was believed to be hiding somewhere north of Baghdad.

Accounts differed yesterday over the extent to which Mahmud had helped pinpoint the locations of Saddam and his sons. NBC News, which first reported that Mahmud was talking, said some of his information has included places where Saddam or the sons may be found.

A Special Operations group known as Task Force 20, made up of army and navy counter-terrorist teams, had been spearheading the long hunt for Saddam and family members.

US officials last night confirmed reports that Mahmud had told his interrogators that he, Saddam and the sons at one point fled to Syria and then re-entered Iraq. Syria has angrily denied US charges it harboured Saddam or members of his family or that it had any knowledge that top former Iraqi leaders might have taken refuge across its border during or since the US-led invasion that toppled Saddam.

Officials told Reuters that the 'information, or perhaps disinformation,' from Mahmud had intensified the hunt for Saddam Hussein and the sons by US Special Operations troops and paramilitary intelligence agents in Iraq.

White House officials said on Friday it was unclear if the former Iraqi leader was alive or dead. 'We know that this guy (Mahmud) was his (Saddam's) shadow at one time. But who knows what's true and what's not here,' one US official said last night.

Mahmud was regarded by Washington as the most wanted Iraqi figure after Saddam and his sons.

The presidential secretary was the ace of diamonds in the US 'deck of cards' of 55 most-wanted Iraqis and the highest-placed of them caught so far.

US forces have now captured at least 32 of the 55 on the list.
 
Quote from saschabr:

saddam is meaningless now. i doubt it would impact the mkt any way.

lol market ramped when they caught that presidential secretary the other day.

"SADDAM DEAD" would be huge for the market.
 
Quote from Cdntrader:



lol market ramped when they caught that presidential secretary the other day.

"SADDAM DEAD" would be huge for the market.

Resolving Hussein's Fate Would Stem Opposition, Lawmakers Say



June 22 (Bloomberg) -- Confirming Saddam Hussein's death would slow the momentum of guerilla fighters in Iraq who have killed more than a dozen U.S. soldiers and sabotaged pipelines since the capital city Baghdad fell, U.S. lawmakers said.

``If we can prove that he's dead, a lot of the steam certainly will go out of that,'' Senator Pat Roberts, a Republican who is chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee, said on the ``Fox News Sunday'' television program.

U.S. specialists are performing DNA tests to determine if human remains from a bombed convoy of luxury four-wheel drive vehicles are those of Hussein and one of his sons, the London- based Observer newspaper reported today. U.S. Central Command and Pentagon spokesmen declined to comment on the report.

Armed groups have killed 17 U.S. soldiers -- including one dead in a grenade attack today -- since U.S. president George W. Bush declared an end to major fighting May 1. At least 39 others have died in accidents, according to figures released by the Pentagon. The U.S. lost 138 personnel before May 1 in combat and accidents.

U.S. officials are investigating whether an explosion late Saturday at an oil pipeline north of Baghdad was the result of sabotage by anti-U.S. groups. It was the second explosion this month at the pipeline. U.S. officials are seeking to restore exports and use revenue from oil sales to help rebuild the country.

Intensified Search

Attempts to locate Hussein, his sons, and closest advisers have intensified since the capture of one of his top aides two days ago, Roberts said. The man, Abid Hamid Mahmud al-Tikriti, was No. 4 on the U.S. list of the 55 most wanted Iraqi leaders. U.S. officials have said he likely remained in contact with Hussein after the U.S.-led invasion.

The Observer reported that the convoy was attacked last Wednesday after U.S. forces received intelligence information that Hussein and his family were traveling in the desert west of Baghdad. The U.S. intercepted satellite telephone conversations involving either Hussein or his sons and launched a missile strike on the vehicles, the newspaper said.

Confirming the death of Hussein would help undercut the morale of fighters who are staging hit-and-run attacks on U.S. soldiers and instill confidence among the broader Iraqi public, Senator Jay Rockefeller, the ranking Democrat on the intelligence committee, said on the Fox program.

Some of the guerrilla attacks are being conducted by volunteers from outside Iraq who are forming a loosely organized resistance to the U.S. occupation forces, he said.

``It's creating havoc for our troops,'' Rockefeller said.

The U.S. launched bombing attacks in March and April against buildings where intelligence reports suggested Hussein and his to aides were located, including a strike on the night before U.S. and U.K. troops began the ground war. The New York Times reported last week that al-Tikriti told officials that Hussein and his two sons, Uday and Qusay, survived the war.

``Until I know through DNA or through some conclusive pieces of evidence that Saddam Hussein and/or his sons are dead, that they are alive, as far as I'm concerned, because they're alive to the Iraqi people,'' Rockefeller said.

King Abdullah II of Jordan agreed with the U.S. lawmakers that Hussein's fate needs to be resolved for the situation in Iraq to stabilize.

``I think that for everybody, there needs to be some closure,'' Abdullah said on ABC's ``This Week'' program. ``I wouldn't underestimate the fear that Saddam still shadows his people with.''

Last Updated: June 22, 2003 12:05 EDT
 
Proof?

Who will believe the USA? You think the loyalists will believe a report given only by the USA, and not have the evidence confirmed by France, Germany, the Soviets, and all those who oppose the USA's efforts?

Heck, if they believed the USA in the first place we wouldn't be having the problems we are having right now.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Proof?

Who will believe the USA? You think the loyalists will believe a report given only by the USA, and not have the evidence confirmed by France, Germany, the Soviets, and all those who oppose the USA's efforts?

Heck, if they believed the USA in the first place we wouldn't be having the problems we are having right now.

yeah, but we don't care about that. we just want to know if there'll be a RALLY or not (at least that's all I care about)!!

regarding the DNA itself, it was my understanding that the US (nor anyone else) did not have a reliable DNA sample from SH???

...unless they went thru his trash in a palace, but then again there would be no way to confirm that a sample from a palace was actually SH. i'd be skeptical of the findings. remember clonaid?? a fake (+) DNA test for SH would be relatively easy to manufacture, considering how 1)they can't confirm that the "reference" sample is SH since they could never directly get a sample from him; 2)that the chunk of flesh they dig out of the convoy was actually SH and not the same individual who left a sample at a palace.
 
my "opinion" would be a feel good rally, maybe even lasting a up to a couple days, but it would be short lived and quickly correct.... you would think any threat saddam had to markets were already discounted in to the current rally.
 
Quote from Cdntrader:



lol market ramped when they caught that presidential secretary the other day.

"SADDAM DEAD" would be huge for the market.

SPOOZ unch pre open. EURUSD unch from friday.
It may be a rumour still, but I cannot see any impact so far.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Proof?

Who will believe the USA? You think the loyalists will believe a report given only by the USA, and not have the evidence confirmed by France, Germany, the Soviets, and all those who oppose the USA's efforts?

Heck, if they believed the USA in the first place we wouldn't be having the problems we are having right now.


Nobody with half a brain believed the USA in the first place and subsequent events certainly justify that lack of belief.

Any problems the USA is now having are of their own making.

BTW..............where are the WMD ?
 
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