RTS Algorithmic Trading Webinar

Quote from Trader666:

Really Jack?

If you have such a keen intellect then why don't you understand the difference between hindsight and the "hard right edge?"

In October of last year you apparently didn't understand it when I caught you doing this hindsight drill:

10-21-08 08:37 PM
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2136041&#post2136041


But even after I'd explained it to you, you did the same thing almost 2 months later. Note ScottD's wording... that YOU suggested doing the drill.

12-10-08 09:31 AM
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2214465&#post2214465

So please enlighten us Jack... are you really that ignorant or were you deliberately trying to deceive people?
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Here is the first reference:

10-21-08 06:37 PM

Let's be soo cool? LOL. More like let's not be soo stupid.

You've just shown us that you don't understand the difference between hindsight and the hard right edge.

This drill is worthless unless it's done by covering the day and then making trading decisions as the indicator is revealed bit by bit, just as it would be in real time. But even then it's lacking because the indicator's curvature changes as price moves between the high and low of each bar and is not "set" until the close of each bar.

If I could have each day's MACD in advance as this bogus drill supposes, I'd have enough in my piggy bank to fund the $700 billion bailout.



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Quote from jack hershey:

Here's a quiz.

Go to paint and fill in the HOLDs between reversals.

See if you can trade without price.

I could put up volume instead of the MACD and you would get the same result.

See if you are capable of using coloe and an open mind to see that YOU can be very very rich.

What about the ATS coding for this as a helper outer?

attachment.php
 

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Quote from Trader666:

Jack, anyone can see that by clicking on the link I posted.

When you trade in real life you don't get to make decisions with approx. 150 FUTURE bars of MACD laid out in front of you. So tell us why that's not a hindsight drill.

And why this isn't a hindsight drill (which ScottD said you initiated almost 2 months later):
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...showthread.php?s=&postid=2136041&#post2136041


But even after I'd explained it to you, you did the same thing almost 2 months later. Note ScottD's wording... that YOU suggested doing the drill.

12-10-08 09:31 AM
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2214465&#post2214465

So please enlighten us Jack... are you really that ignorant or were you deliberately trying to deceive people?
More...

Here is the first reference:

10-21-08 06:37 PM

Let's be soo cool? LOL. More like let's not be soo stupid.

You've just shown us that you don't understand the difference between hindsight and the hard right edge.

This drill is worthless unless it's done by covering the day and then making trading decisions as the indicator is revealed bit by bit, just as it would be in real time. But even then it's lacking because the indicator's curvature changes as price moves between the high and low of each bar and is not "set" until the close of each bar.

If I could have each day's MACD in advance as this bogus drill supposes, I'd have enough in my piggy bank to fund the $700 billion bailout.



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Quote from jack hershey:

Here's a quiz.

Go to paint and fill in the HOLDs between reversals.

See if you can trade without price.

I could put up volume instead of the MACD and you would get the same result.

See if you are capable of using coloe and an open mind to see that YOU can be very very rich.

What about the ATS coding for this as a helper outer?

attachment.php



First lets give Trader666 some empathy.

He states that what he see is done in hindsight. "hard right edge" to him means "at the time something actually in real time occurs.

For most people who monitor, they look at the "hard right edge" all the time as time passes.

Tader666 says that as a bar forms no one knows what it will do until the bar ends and not a second before. He does not trade anything but stocks and he does not sort the stocks he trades into a universe of any sort. He does not trade indexes at all and he does not lool at the ES five minute chart.

The signal for an indicator can vary for a person. For example, in an ATS for the ES on a five minute chart a signal could be any one of for if the Scott Dugan ATS were being used.

For those who are not following the daily development of the "cash Cow" invented by Scott and associates, there are many such indicator signals. Here are four:

1. The MACD histogram zero cross over up

2. The MACD histogram zero cross over down

3. The St5F 50% crossover up

4. The St5F 50% crossover down

5. The St14F 80% crossover down

6. The St14F 20% crossover up

These signals can appear independently, in pairs or in triples.

They can appear serially bar after bar in any combo in a two bar duration or a three bar duration.

MADA is used to do the ATS.

"The hard right edge" of the basic versions 1.0 through 1.3 is end of bar.

Basic supreme also uses the end of bar primarily. But because 0ver 30 additional signals are added, there is an ssue about just using end of bar as the hard right edge.

With much empathy for trader666 what are the two considerations of the "hard right edge" viv a vis ends of bars?

1. the indicator display has a well know "flapper" charactistic. caused by the 2 pair shifting of BBid/BAsk.

2. When 1 has past, relative to crossover, then there is no concern for the flapper characterisitc. I better say this empathetically in another way: after a certain point in the trend of the indicator during a bar, the crossover is history and the indicator continues to move AWAY from the crossover.

for those who monitor and are making money on level past the basic or basic supreme, there are the intermediate and expert considerations. No end of bar trading is done on these levels of making money. Why not?

This reason come down to effectiveness and efficiency.

The "hard right edge" of Trade666 is where ALL or most all whipsaw trading originates. What is this whipsaw difficulty of the "hard right edge" trading so common in ET? By trading at end of bar, it is easily seen that often it is the least advantageous price of most all of the prices on bars. It is a poorly timed signal that eats up the full bar width bar to bar and puts the trader upside down bar after bar.

Speaking empathetically to a person, Trade666, who will not even do trading other that position trade large caps stocks and not trade anything intraday as a consequence of his risk reasoning processes, He is definitely "caught up" with the "hard right edge" inherent "whipsaw" dilemma.

Everyone know how to research and post the definition of a "dilemma". Maybe wikipedia does not have a "hard right edge dilemma" entry and maybe "whipsaw" is not the subtitle. But sme day when it happens, then Trader666 can go there and read about it and reject it.


In the versions of the ATS after beginnerBasic and after basic supreme, we get to the solution of trader666's "hard right edge dilemma"

Intermediate and expert trading take advantage of the one thing common to all indicator signals; NAMELY: indicator signals do not occur at the end of bars, a place called the "hard right edge".

We all assume, with empathy included, that trader666 knows and has complete reaseach on the fact that indicator crossovers do NOT occur at end of bars. we also know that he must be backtesting with the application of the crossover at the end of the bar on which the crossover previously happened in real time WELL BEFORE "THE HARD RIGHT EDGE".

So all quality ATS trading is NOT done at the end of bars because if it were, then the bar volatility would be given up and whipsaw losses would ensue during repeated testing of R and S a time at which lateral channels are so prevelant.

so how can a person overcome these things in debriefing after the market closes or on weekends. the simple solution is doing logs and sliding a sheet of paper across the chart to reveal the results of each bar as it occurs. an improvement on this is to go to the archives and pull the day's camtasia and just advance the camtasia to each turn rapidly then do real time to see intrabar where the signals occurs and pick off the whole volatility of the intrabar trade as an advantage instead of getting the "whipsaw" dilemma of using "the hard right edge" as explained by Trader666.

QED
s=&postid=2214465&#post2214465[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
 

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Quote from MrSuperlatives:

Jack "Hindsight" Hershey
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A lot of people notice that the six signals in the prior post occur on the Hershey Hinge.

for the basic ATS we do use end of bars or "the hard right edge" as Trader666 refers to it.

Trader 28, Steven went through three transitions to get where he is today:

1. Price Action, and

2. Money management.

The Money management keeps his cash out of the market and he doesn't use the Hershey Hinge for intrabar trading.

Obviously, on a Hershey Hinge, the coded signal comes as the price "crosses" through the open of the second bar as the "Second Chance" to catch the trade missed on the first bar's "hard right edge" was missed.

A little empathy for Steven, folks.
 
I'm not surprised by your verbose obfuscation. You can't rebut the real issue in clear, concise terms so you hide behind haughty drivel and red herrings.

Let me be very clear. When you trade in real life you don't get to make decisions with over 100 FUTURE bars worth of indicators and volume laid out in front of you. That's the issue.

ScottD posted the following chart which he said in the thread at the link below is "Jack’s response with analysis and trade decisions." The chart contained over 100 bars worth of three indicators and volume with the price bars removed and you annotated trading decisions as if that's an accomplishment. It is not. Those indicators are derivatives of price so by having the indicators you in effect have price. Which shows that you're either detached from reality or deliberately trying to deceive people.

YOU'VE BEEN BUSTED BY YOUR OWN MISGUIDED ATTEMPT TO IMPRESS PEOPLE.

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2437607>

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147441&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
Quote from jack hershey:

blah, blah, blah
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Quote from Trader666:

I'm not surprised by your verbose obfuscation. You can't rebut the real issue in clear, concise terms so you hide behind haughty drivel and gobbledygook.

Let me be very clear. ScottD posted the following chart which he said in the thread at the link below is "Jack’s response with analysis and trade decisions." The chart contained over 100 bars worth of three indicators and volume with the price bars removed and you annotated trading decisions as if that's an accomplishment. It is not. It shows that you're either detached from reality or you're deliberately trying to deceive people.

When you trade in real life you don't get to make decisions with over 100 FUTURE bars worth of indicators and volume laid out in front of you.

YOU'VE BEEN BUSTED BY YOUR OWN MISGUIDED ATTEMPT TO IMPRESS PEOPLE.

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2437607>

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147441&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
More...

Doing those annotations was DEFINITELY NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Obviously it was a piece of cake for you, for me and for Scott.

We (Scott and I) embarked on asking for anyone who wished to form a team to do some ATS work using the four indicators and not price.

I'm sure you have the code and you can see how it is working as the days go by.

The M charts give the dashboardand its lighting (not on the component level but on the four levels above component level: sub-assembly, assembly, final assembly and execution feed panel.)

The Excel sheets (83 degrees of freedom) give the Analysis and each of the five Basic panels are additional sheets for adding development for each part of the five degrees of freedom that make up the feed to the execution platform.

The pseudo logic landscape sheets are used to recite the coding on the platform used and they show the binary vector combos that reduce the 83 degrees to the output degrees of freedom for each bar as the day unfolds bar by bar on the "hard right edge" as YOU say for end of bar trading on the lowest money velocity level.

All those on the team are having a blast apparently and they pick up the voice recordings daily as hammering out the development moves along.

I get the month of MAY charts (M) and (A) and (D and A) as each iteration improves the performance of the Cash Cow ATS.

A while back you fudged a chart to try to fake me out by adding a trade that would not occur (in any ATS logic sense). I called you out on your fudging. We all thought you were just being your funny self yet one more time.

Thank you for posting the chart that we used to determine that an ATS could be created for four levels of trading: Beginner, Advanced Beginner, Intermediate and Expert. The team is doing the ATS and using it and it is getting refined as every day passes.

I don't know exactly which part of the team you are on but thanks for whatever help you contributed. Did you drop out at some point???
 
That's not consistent with what ScottD wrote about it. Apparently he did think it was an accomplishment. Which may be why he got sucked into wasting four months of his life with your "methods."

Recently Jack Hershey suggested that someone post an S&P 500 futures chart with only Volume, MACD(5,13,6), Stochastic(14,1,3) and Stochastic(5,2,3) – but not Price. Jack said that he would demonstrate how to trade it profitably.

Sounded interesting, so I posted a price-less chart. I threw a curveball (pun intended) and posted a US 10 Year Treasury Notes futures chart instead of S&P 500 futures. In addition, I removed the time and price axes and up/down volume color coding.

As it turns out, Jack realized it was not the ES and was able to identify successful trades, capturing significant profits.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2213671#post2213671
Quote from jack hershey:

Doing those annotations was DEFINITELY NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Obviously it was a piece of cake for you, for me and for Scott.
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Oh really? Where exactly are they doing that? ScottD's last post on ET was a status report in March where he wrote it wasn't working:

Each logic release has had some profitable days and flashes of brilliance, but the logic has not been profitable over a sustained multi-week forward test or multi-month back test period.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2357209#post2357209
Quote from jack hershey:

Thank you for posting the chart that we used to determine that an ATS could be created for four levels of trading: Beginner, Advanced Beginner, Intermediate and Expert. The team is doing the ATS and using it and it is getting refined as every day passes.
More...
 
Here is how the ATS annotated a may chart (I don't remember the date).

This was circulated at the time later in the afternoon of the day the ATS was at work on the hard right edge (meaning bar by bar). We have been asked by the platform provider to not mention names so we won't.

Since they are so many components ( ) and sub assemblies( ), assemblies( ) and final assemblies( ) and the execution feed( ), I only put the number of each (in light tan) in the ( ) after the generic name.

You being a prgrammer, backtester, analyist, researcher and searcher understand generation breakdowns. logic, null hypothesis testing and so on..... can see the validation required to get this beginner level output shown that goes to the execution platform bar by bar.

Maybe we should do a thead where two bars ahead I post that the ATS is thinking of giving a signal to us all. When it does, maybe I should send the signal to you by pm so you can post that I sent it to you.

attachment.php


For those who are interested we took a vote teamwide and by a good majority the crew voted to NOT save up all the trade signals until the end of the day. We credit, fully, Trader666 for thinking up the "hard right edge" idea that makes it possible to know all the time at the end of bars AFTER the trading signal occurred, is a good place to annotate before we forget we did the turn during the bar. Two votes were against and they are in the sub group that chooses the dashboard lighting and our parenthetical number coloring.
 

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You should. But somehow I doubt that will happen... just like when you promised your former IBD group you'd turn $10 thousand into $1 million in 100 days and post updates on ET, and that never happened.

You're misrepresenting what I wrote. But then again, you're not very good at getting your facts straight... I'll post another example of that right after this post. Anyway, here's what I really said:

the indicator's curvature changes as price moves between the high and low of each bar and is not "set" until the close of each bar

P.S. Where's ScottD now? His last post on ET was a status report in March where he wrote it wasn't working:

Each logic release has had some profitable days and flashes of brilliance, but the logic has not been profitable over a sustained multi-week forward test or multi-month back test period.
Quote from jack hershey:

Maybe we should do a thead where two bars ahead I post that the ATS is thinking of giving a signal to us all. When it does, maybe I should send the signal to you by pm so you can post that I sent it to you.

We credit, fully, Trader666 for thinking up the "hard right edge" idea that makes it possible to know all the time at the end of bars AFTER the trading signal occurred, is a good place to annotate before we forget we did the turn during the bar.
More...
 
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