Ron Paul Warns of Violence from Pending Dollar Crisis

[jprad]

Quote from Scataphagos:

There were not monster deficits and huge national debt in Morgan's time.

At some point, those things cease being "handle-able", go parabolic, and lead to destruction and bankruptcy. How close are we to that? Too close for my comfort.

C'mon, like the U.S. is the only country in the G8 with monster deficits and debt. As a percentage of GDP, it's substantially less than the others.

I'd be more worried about China if they had a thriving internal economy and even more worried if their population had a standard of living that came close to what ours was when we exited the Depression.

They are completely dependent on the G8, more so because they can't export anywhere else at the same rate they were before the shit hit the fan.

I'm not saying the next few years, even decades won't be pretty. But, the U.S. is better positioned than the rest of the G8 to get through this mess.

 

[Misthos]

Quote from jprad:


"Remember, my son, that any man who is a bear on the future of this country will go broke."
- J.P. Morgan

When JP Morgan said that the USA was BOTH the Saudi Arabia of the World, and the China of the world. What does that mean? Up until the 1950s, we were the world's largest creditor and largest exporter of Oil.

Talk all you want about American Ingenuity - and I agree it's unique. But don't ignore those other two facts either.

 

[Rod Shaft]

Quote from trefoil:

And no totalitarian country has ever been able to beat out a democracy. I suppose there will always be a first time, but it's not really a bet you want to take. The odds are pretty long.

Sorry, I don't mean to be that guy... but what about the Peloponnesian War?

 

[jprad]

Quote from Misthos:

When JP Morgan said that the USA was BOTH the Saudi Arabia of the World, and the China of the world. What does that mean? Up until the 1950s, we were the world's largest creditor and largest exporter of Oil.

Talk all you want about American Ingenuity - and I agree it's unique. But don't ignore those other two facts either.

So, what you're really trying to say is that "this time is different..."

"China of the world?" Who gives a shit about consumer products? Look into the kinds of technologies where the U.S. is still the dominant exporter and innovator.

"Saudi Arabia of the world?" Ever see Star Trek II? Specifically, the scene where Kirk explains how you increase the repair time by a factor of 2 if you think the enemy is listening in?

Disinformation is a much more useful tool than information.

 

[IanMacQuaide]

Quote from jprad:

Rote scores are not proportional to innovation.

That wasn't my point.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from Misthos:

When JP Morgan said that the USA was BOTH the Saudi Arabia of the World, and the China of the world. What does that mean? Up until the 1950s, we were the world's largest creditor and largest exporter of Oil.

Talk all you want about American Ingenuity - and I agree it's unique. But don't ignore those other two facts either.

obama is trying to stifle american ingenuity by making everyone dependent on the gov't for their income. we will see if the american people is stronger than obama and his cohorts in the US congress.

 

[Misthos]

Quote from jprad:

So, what you're really trying to say is that "this time is different..."

"China of the world?" Who give a shit about consumer products? Look into the kinds of technologies where the U.S. is still the dominant exporter and innovator.

"Saudi Arabia of the world?" Ever see Star Trek II? Specifically, the scene where Kirk explains how you increase the repair time by a factor of 2 if you think the enemy is listening in?

Disinformation is a much more useful tool than information.

When I said China of the world - I meant world's largest CREDITOR - re-read what I wrote. What would you rather be, the world's largest creditor nation, or in the hole for trillions?

We were also the world's largest EXPORTER of oil. Oil is basically free energy for a society that produces its own oil. We are now the world's LARGEST importer of oil. Those dollars now leave the country - we consume more than we produce. That's why we have a current account deficit.

Wake up... it's not 1955 anymore. The rest of the world caught up to us. We have to sacrifice, we have to work harder, we have to work smarter - or we're toast. (Actually, the planet is toast anyway, but that's a few decades away)

Sorry, I don't think Captain Kirk will save us. But I was hopeful there for a minute - you almost had me convinced.

 

[jprad]

Quote from IanMacQuaide:

That wasn't my point.

No, but it was mine.

You really need to spend some time working along side them, I have. Nice people, pleasant, courteous, good to go to lunch or dinner with.

But, problem solving? Unless they saw it before they were lost.

Like I said, rote. There's a world of difference between reciting the fact set of a subject and having an intrinsic understanding and working knowledge of it.

 

[jprad]

Quote from Misthos:

When I said China of the world - I meant world's largest CREDITOR - re-read what I wrote. What would you rather be, the world's largest creditor nation, or in the hole for trillions?

Heh, when you owe the bank a little, they own you. But, when you owe the bank a lot, you own them.

We were also the world's largest EXPORTER of oil. Oil is basically free energy for a society that produces its own oil. We are now the world's LARGEST importer of oil.

I deleted you last point because you completely missed mine. It's simple game theory, no bigs if you don't get it now, but you will some time in the future if you're still consuming oxygen and remember this thread.

 

[scriabinop23]

Quote from Misthos:

When JP Morgan said that the USA was BOTH the Saudi Arabia of the World, and the China of the world. What does that mean? Up until the 1950s, we were the world's largest creditor and largest exporter of Oil.

Talk all you want about American Ingenuity - and I agree it's unique. But don't ignore those other two facts either.

We are in a policy bind, yes, but don't keep your outlook of potential to be within the box. The US already has the factors of production to be the saudi arabia of energy production (look to breeder nuke technology, or less head-in-the-clouds shale nat gas & algae oil production), and has enough slack in the labor force to produce useless crap with 3-year lifespans as China currently does. The only reason we don't is because it is a better deal to let China do the production, and the world oil cartels stifle innovation. China's currency subsidy policy is merely -delaying- future consumption of US currency denominated goods. But don't kid yourself, if the shit hit the fan, I think we'd be just fine.

I think global warming trends from continued reliance on fossil fuels present greater perils to humanity and Americans than do temporary trade imbalances or power grabs by certain strong constituencies who perpetuate their high monopoly rents.