Ron Paul Takes Over First Place in Iowa

Quote from Ricter:

But what are the negative symptoms? Your taxes are too high? Your freedoms too constricted? I mean, without symptoms, what you've stated is a technicality. Look around the world, your taxes (excepting California for the moment) are middle of road (remarkable, considering we're an empire). Your freedoms are still envied. So how is government "too big", just in theory?

Look around the world ? Why ?
just look around in USA and compare today with yesterday.
 
Quote from Ricter:

But what are the negative symptoms? Your taxes are too high? Your freedoms too constricted? I mean, without symptoms, what you've stated is a technicality. Look around the world, your taxes (excepting California for the moment) are middle of road (remarkable, considering we're an empire). Your freedoms are still envied. So how is government "too big", just in theory?

The only reason our taxes look middle of the road compared to those high tax, heavily socialized European countries is because we borrow such a large fraction of our federal spending. If we had the same level of spending and a balanced budget your income taxes would have to be more than twice as high. Then let me hear about how "middle of the road" our taxes are.

My freedoms are envied? By whom? In most other countries you can get on an airplane without an electronic strip search. The Patriot Act strips away your fourth amendment rights, your sixth amendment rights, and much of your first amendment rights. So the freedoms you speak of are increasingly a historical anachronism.
 
Quote from rew:

The only reason our taxes look middle of the road compared to those high tax, heavily socialized European countries is because we borrow such a large fraction of our federal spending. If we had the same level of spending and a balanced budget your income taxes would have to be more than twice as high. Then let me hear about how "middle of the road" our taxes are...

BINGO!
 
Quote from plyka:

I'm a big time Ron Paul supporter, but it just wont happen. I don't think many people understand just how this thing works. There is an establishment elite in this country and perhaps the world. It's not like they are sitting around twirling mustaches and coming up with evil conspiracies (although now that the bilderberg has gone public with their own website, i guess that's up to debate, lol: http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php )but they generally have the same goals and promote the establishment line. Remember, due to government regulations and other powers, the mainstream media has been reduced to about 4 mega corporations. They all have the same goals, because that's the source of their power and wealth.

That's why close to the top, both parties are EXACTLY the same and push the EXACT same policies, despite differences in rhetoric. Remember that Bill Clinton was basically a libertarian when compared to big government W. Bush, and now Obama comes in with basically the same level of massive government as W Bush.

The establishment elite pushes BIG GOVERNMENT. Whether in regulation or spending. They love it, because if they didn't have the billy club of big government, then these guys would actually have to compete with other corporations/companies/people. It is much easier to get a regulation passed which restricts competition rather than to actually make a better/cheaper product.
Welcome to America..
 
Quote from Ricter:

But what are the negative symptoms? Your taxes are too high? Your freedoms too constricted? I mean, without symptoms, what you've stated is a technicality. Look around the world, your taxes (excepting California for the moment) are middle of road (remarkable, considering we're an empire). Your freedoms are still envied. So how is government "too big", just in theory?

First, our freedoms have been eroded by big government. Let's take stock shall we:

The 4th amendment which has been all but destroyed by the TSA (DHS) and the Patriot Act. The government may now search our persons, places, or effects without probable cause or a warrant. If you want to get on a plane, you have a choice between harmful radiation or sexual assault.

The 1st amendment has all but been taken away with the advent of "free speech zones" and crackdowns on protests before they even begin.

Habeus corpus can be suspended at the the will of the executive, along with the right to due process. All Obama has to do is label you an enemy combatant and poof, you're dead. GW started us on this road but Obama took it to the extreme.

Even our right to bear arms has been unconstitutionally restricted and remains under constant attack. So, when you say our freedoms are envied, who envies them and which freedoms are you talking about?

Second, regarding middle of the road taxes, most of them go to service government debt from before you and I were born. That comparatively, we are in the middle of the pack (I'll assume you are correct) makes no difference. The federal government has taken on many functions it was never meant to have. The government has no money of its own so naturally we are on the hook for all of it. Would you like to see the result of big government's deficit spending jones?

Check this out (pay particular attention US Unfunded Liabilities and Liability by taxpayer) :

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
 
Quote from plyka:

The establishment elite pushes BIG GOVERNMENT. Whether in regulation or spending. They love it, because if they didn't have the billy club of big government, then these guys would actually have to compete with other corporations/companies/people. It is much easier to get a regulation passed which restricts competition rather than to actually make a better/cheaper product. It's much easier to get a fat tasty contract from the government, then earn it from real people in the marketplace.

most regulations are in place for good reason. to curb abuses by business or individuals. epa regulations are in place because business does things that harm the enviroment in the name of profit. faa regulations are in place because airlines were lax on inspections and after a few horrible crashes inspection regulations were put in place to prevent it. automotive safety regulations were put in place in response to auto death rates. airport inspection regulations were put in place in response to hyjackings. food safety regulations were put into place in response to outbreaks of food sickness problems. school integration regulations were put into place because southern states refused to allow blacks in their schools. the list goes on and on. very few regulations were put into place for no reason.
 
Quote from Free Thinker:

most regulations are in place for good reason. to curb abuses by business or individuals. epa regulations are in place because business does things that harm the enviroment in the name of profit. faa regulations are in place because airlines were lax on inspections and after a few horrible crashes inspection regulations were put in place to prevent it. automotive safety regulations were put in place in response to auto death rates. airport inspection regulations were put in place in response to hyjackings. food safety regulations were put into place in response to outbreaks of food sickness problems. school integration regulations were put into place because southern states refused to allow blacks in their schools. the list goes on and on. very few regulations were put into place for no reason.

Of course there's a reason, to protect the entrenched oligarchy from competition. Many regulations are actually written by the industry they are meant to regulate. Add to that the revolving door between regulated corporations and regulatory agencies and welcome to America.

Let's take the example of Monsanto shall we:

Ern03.jpg


Conflict of interests perhaps?
 
Quote from Free Thinker:

most regulations are in place for good reason. to curb abuses by business or individuals. epa regulations are in place because business does things that harm the enviroment in the name of profit. faa regulations are in place because airlines were lax on inspections and after a few horrible crashes inspection regulations were put in place to prevent it. automotive safety regulations were put in place in response to auto death rates. airport inspection regulations were put in place in response to hyjackings. food safety regulations were put into place in response to outbreaks of food sickness problems. school integration regulations were put into place because southern states refused to allow blacks in their schools. the list goes on and on. very few regulations were put into place for no reason.

Just tried to explain this very thing to someone else recently.
 
Quote from plyka:

I'm a big time Ron Paul supporter, but it just wont happen. I don't think many people understand just how this thing works. There is an establishment elite in this country and perhaps the world. It's not like they are sitting around twirling mustaches and coming up with evil conspiracies (although now that the bilderberg has gone public with their own website, i guess that's up to debate, lol: http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php )but they generally have the same goals and promote the establishment line. Remember, due to government regulations and other powers, the mainstream media has been reduced to about 4 mega corporations. They all have the same goals, because that's the source of their power and wealth.

That's why close to the top, both parties are EXACTLY the same and push the EXACT same policies, despite differences in rhetoric. Remember that Bill Clinton was basically a libertarian when compared to big government W. Bush, and now Obama comes in with basically the same level of massive government as W Bush.

The establishment elite pushes BIG GOVERNMENT. Whether in regulation or spending. They love it, because if they didn't have the billy club of big government, then these guys would actually have to compete with other corporations/companies/people. It is much easier to get a regulation passed which restricts competition rather than to actually make a better/cheaper product. It's much easier to get a fat tasty contract from the government, then earn it from real people in the marketplace.

So, would the establishment elite ever allow such a thing as a true small government guy to take over? NEVER. If he even started to gain any serious traction, you would not see the end of the stories, i can see it now:


Ron paul = racist
Ron Paul = rapist
Ron Paul = pedaphile
Ron Paul = murderer

etc. Their establishment puppets like Obama, Gingrich, ex FED director Cain, the ken dolls Perry and the Mormon guy (forgot his name), et al.


Someone posted a vid that Paul would not vote for the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and he admitted that he would not have.

Add that, to articles like this one:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html

from Conservative online sites, and the Ron Paul = racist moniker will stick.

I am not saying that he is one, but he will not put clear distance between himself and hate groups.
 
Quote from RCG Trader:

Just tried to explain this very thing to someone else recently.

The reason is generally to protect the entrenched oligarchy from competition.
 
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