Ron Paul says healthcare not a right

[mtwokay]

Quote from loza:

IN the US, where people worship money and money only everything is ass backwards. Consider this...most anywhere in the world (I mean civilized world) healthcare is not for profit, hence the cost is kept modest. The idiots running in circles in Congress and media has not seen this yet...go figure....

Not sure where you live but that kind of thinking stops progress.

Motivation fuled by profit is the only thing that brings invention, new ideas, and new products that solve problems to the market.

Show us all the health care technology provided by Russia or China. How about all the pharmaceuticals developed by evil capitalist companies?

 

[AlpineTrout]

Quote from Kassz007:

I've been reading some posts regarding freedom. It seems as though some people are afraid of losing their freedoms and having government control other aspects of their life if government becomes involved in healthcare. I disagree, as it does not necessarily have to be that way. Look at other countries where government is involved in healthcare. I don't think countries such as Canada, and many in Europe are any less "free" because of government involvment in healthcare, let alone less "free" than the USA. Why would government involvment in healthcare have that effect on the USA only?

How can you consider yourself 'free' (with regards to healthcare) if you can't even choose your doctor? I don't know if it would start out like that, but I'm dam well sure that's how it'll end.

It's very possible it will be ILLEGAL for you and the doctor to get a medical procedure outside of their plan. This is what you want? Not me.

 

[loza]

Do some research into this and you'll see the merit of my post, and by the way I am not talking China or Cuba. I am talking civilized countries, which sadly the us currently cannot join. Healthcare, and I am not talking about pharmaceutical research, but hospital and other patient treatment should not be for profit, and it is NOT in places where heath care system is working. You simply cannot have insurance companies dole out patient care and ruin this county from the already sad state we are already in. Where in the world would a hospital could get away with two charges for a semi private room, for a 2000 USD for insurance claims and a smaller one for cash payees?

Quote from mtwokay:

Not sure where you live but that kind of thinking stops progress.

Motivation fuled by profit is the only thing that brings invention, new ideas, and new products that solve problems to the market.

Show us all the health care technology provided by Russia or China. How about all the pharmaceuticals developed by evil capitalist companies?

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from AlpineTrout:

How can you consider yourself 'free' (with regards to healthcare) if you can't even choose your doctor? I don't know if it would start out like that, but I'm dam well sure that's how it'll end.

It's very possible it will be ILLEGAL for you and the doctor to get a medical procedure outside of their plan. This is what you want? Not me.

That's just nonsensical fear mongering, and the Republicans do it well with their misleading ads. Have you noticed that the scare ads are voiced over by people who sound a lot like Mr. Rogers talking to children? The condescension is palpable. In their defense, they know how to talk to their base.

 

[mtwokay]

Quote from loza:

Do some research into this and you'll see the merit of my post, and by the way I am not talking China or Cuba. I am talking civilized countries, which sadly the us currently cannot join. Healthcare, and I am not talking about pharmaceutical research, but hospital and other patient treatment should not be for profit, and it is NOT in places where heath care system is working. You simply cannot have insurance companies dole out patient care and ruin this county from the already sad state we are already in. Where in the world would a hospital could get away with two charges for a semi private room, for a 2000 USD for insurance claims and a smaller one for cash payees?

Ok, I get it. You’re an elitist that trashes the U.S. as uncivilized because we don’t provide the kind of healthcare “civilized” countries provide. In other words, “free” healthcare. This is a typical tactic used by socialists and those with a losing position. You can’t win this argument on the merits of “free” healthcare so you attempt to elevate yourself above the “uncivilized” capitalist system. I take exception to your trashing.

But let’s get past your politics.

My post applies to all levels of health care, including R&D and provider services.

The funny part is that you unknowingly implied the problem and solution: Insurance and YOU.

When you negotiate for the type and level of health care services required, you win. When the insurance company or government negotiates on your behalf, you lose.

Single Payer = Single Decider

When government becomes the single payer, they become your decider. You eventually lose all freedom and liberty over your lifestyle and coverage options.

Doctors and Hospitals must be put in a position to compete for your business. They don’t have to right now and they especially will not when ObamaCare takes over.

This is the essence of my position. You are free and have every right to convey your liberty and freedom over to another entity, such as the government. You are not free and have no right to convey mine, or take my earnings to pay for your problems. A free market solves this issue, government doesn't.

 

[Brandonf]

It's not a right. The idea that something is so valuable that the people who provide that valuable service should be forced to sell it at a huge discount should offend any honest person.

 

[151]

Its very common for people whose ideals are left leaning or more to behave as if they are more intelligent than conservative leaning people.

It is obvious in their writting and their speach.

I have always felt it was strange for them to think they are smarter based only on their differences of opinion.

But after reading some peoples post about what are or are not rights, I sort of understand.

Anyone who doesnt have the brain power to understand the differences between what is a right and what is not most obviously is less intelligent than someone who does. correct?

For someone to believe that education is a right truly befuddles me.

I am very interested to see how far into the future we will be when people begin to argue that broadband internet is a right.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from AlpineTrout:

How can you consider yourself 'free' (with regards to healthcare) if you can't even choose your doctor? I don't know if it would start out like that, but I'm dam well sure that's how it'll end.

It's very possible it will be ILLEGAL for you and the doctor to get a medical procedure outside of their plan. This is what you want? Not me.

I live in Canada and am free to choose any doctor I like...
Want a second opinion? No problem. I've never had any real major medical issues so I'm not entirely sure how the system works in that regard (major surgeries etc), but in terms of general health care, I can absolutely choose my doctor.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from 151:


For someone to believe that education is a right truly befuddles me.

I am very interested to see how far into the future we will be when people begin to argue that broadband internet is a right.

Education absolutely should be a right. This is one of the reasons (or selling points at least) for the war in Afghanistan. How does this befuddle you?

What is considered a right changes all of the time as the years pass. Think of a woman's right to vote, or the whole slavery issue. I would not be surprised at all if in 100 years it is considered a right to have access to broadband internet, just as a country's citizens should have the right to appropriate health care.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from Kassz007:

I live in Canada and am free to choose any doctor I like...
Want a second opinion? No problem. I've never had any real major medical issues so I'm not entirely sure how the system works in that regard (major surgeries etc), but in terms of general health care, I can absolutely choose my doctor.

That's just it - you've never had any real medical issue. I've lived in a socialized medicine country and DID have a major medical issue.

Socialized medicine is really good at dispensing aspirin. If you need a specialist, that gets expensive and you're screwed.

Look, if the problem is that people don't have access to basic medical care, then give them the money to buy it. Why does providing medical care necessitate government controlling it?