Ron Paul says healthcare not a right

[bighog]

We have in USA a "UNIVERSIAL" military that is paid for by the public taxpayer.

Why not a "UNIVERSIAL" healthcare?

Lets cut the bullshit propaganda. Until the brainwashed public get out in the streets and raise hell and DEMAND change there will be no change.

Look at the financial blowup as another example. What is really being corrected to avoid another blowup in next decade?

The public are nothing but pawns and targets. The only time public gets any real attention is when they raise hell..............but we know American public is afraid of their own shadow because they have been told to do so.

 

[Mvic]

Given the money that is spent on healthcare in this country it is a crying shame that everyone is not covered whether it is a right or not.

Obama is creating a massive new government initiative that is simply increasing costs to everyone to pay for a bunch of new bureaucrats nosing in on health care. This is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. We should be eliminating all the leaches that suck up to 40% of each health care dollar out of the system, use a portion of those savings to cover everyone with a lower premium and increase access to care by making reimbursement rates realistic. This way we get all the universal access benefits of a Canadian and English system but without the loss of quality of care.

Make no mistake, all this latest health care reform is is an excuse to extract more of people's money, either in the form of a direct tax on the rich, or with an indirect tax on those the government is too embarrassed to call rich (but would if they could) via mandatory premiums. This additional money going in to health care (wasn't the whole point cost containment rather than to grow the % of GDP spent on health care?) will not go in to improved care but will just go to support a new tier of health care bureaucracy. This is not change we need, it is change we can ill afford!

 

[IanMacQuaide]

Anecdotal, but true example of "Government Health Care".
My aunt is on Medicaid, in an assisted living center just north of Houston.
A psychiatrist came to see her in her room one day, diagnosed her with Alzheimers, which she doesn't have, and came back the next week to "see" her.
Turns out, this guys billing Medicaid for $150 a week just for the 5 minutes he spent with her. Not only that, but he's doing this at her assisted living center, plus a few others. It's how me makes a very good living.
She never called his office. He just showed up.

Her "Diabetes Dr." does the same thing. Comes by, asks her what her blood sugar is
(HE asks HER what her blood sugar is?!?!?!?!)
and, since he treats her roommate, he asks her what her blood sugar readings are, says "Bye", then leaves.
5 minutes max.

Ya'll can argue whether health care is a right, meantime, we're getting ripped off for millions of dollars a day, via the Government program called Medicaid.

 

[paj]

Quote from KINGOFSHORTS:

I agree.

I worked hard for a living and I have health care and life insurance.

I did not go to college. I did not ask for handouts and I am covered.



Why should I pay for someone who chose not to move ahead in life?

If only it were that simple. How about this scenario...

• You worked hard for a living and you have health care and life insurance.
• You did not go to college. You did not ask for handouts and you are covered.
• You were unfortunate enough to contract a serious illness after which your
  insurance premiums increased to a level you were unable to afford. This left you uninsured.
• Then you were involved in a serious car accident...

Why should someone else pay for your treatment and subsequent care. Should you be just leave to die at the scene of the accident.

 

[paj]

Quote from cgar:

Do the Canadians and UK citzens think thier systems are good and cheap?Are you satified with your system?

Anyone.

In the UK you have a choice. If you feel the National Health Service is not meeting your needs, you can pay for private medical care.

But there is always the peace-of-mind that you will never have to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from paj:

If only it were that simple. How about this scenario...

• You worked hard for a living and you have health care and life insurance.
• You did not go to college. You did not ask for handouts and you are covered.
• You were unfortunate enough to contract a serious illness after which your
  insurance premiums increased to a level you were unable to afford. This left you uninsured.
• Then you were involved in a serious car accident...

Why should someone else pay for your treatment and subsequent care. Should you be just leave to die at the scene of the accident.

Real life scenarios like these do not play into the minds of Libertarians and Republicans. There is no “if” in their vocabulary. Everything is according to some theory of how things should work. I voted for Ron Paul, but I do disagree with him on some things. I mostly like him because he wants to get rid of the Fed, stop the military empire we have and foreign aid, reform immigration, and protect our liberty’s. If we simply did those few things, most of the financial problems we face would be solved. We probably spend enough on overseas wars and policing to provide standard medical care for every American

But to get back to your point, what you describe probably doesn’t happen to the people you are responding to, that’s why they talk like that. It’s like the baby boomers who talk about how lazy kids are today. Well yea, why should they work twice as hard for the same thing you got? They bought homes for 50k that are now worth 500k, and then turn around and blame all these “stupid, ignorant people who got mortgages they couldn’t afford.” What, do you think you’re the only one that wants to own your own home? So yea maybe someone buys a home they couldn’t afford because they see their American dream slipping away to pay for your retirement. Can you blame them? You had the opportunity to buy a house, why shouldn’t they?

Same thing pretty much goes for healthcare. If they got cancer tomorrow and all of a sudden the insurance company says they’ll only pay X amount for it and you have the choice to either die or look for public assistance or hit up the credit cards or something like that, you bet they’d be singing a different tune. That’s why I will probably soon say goodbye to the Republican party and become an independent.

 

[bullmarket79]

if healthcare is a right,,then all of us can expect some things from individuals who get govt healthcare or they will be excluded,,such as they can NOT smoke,,or be OVERWEIGHT and they must EXERCISE.
If someone expects me to pay there ticket then they must obey my rules,,such as when you lived under your parents roof, my house,,my rules,,

 

[countryBoy]

Of course Health Care is not a right. If Health Care was a right, so is a Cadillac Escallade. You can find them both in the Yellow Pages, and they both cost a lot of money.

Hey, I need a Caddy Escallade, and you have to pay for it.

 

[Mvic]

Quote from paj:

In the UK you have a choice. If you feel the National Health Service is not meeting your needs, you can pay for private medical care.

But there is always the peace-of-mind that you will never have to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills.

A choice? Riiight.

Because all the Brits have the 20K a week that it costs to get care on the Linden ward, the private wing of St Mary's. Unfortunately my grandmother who recovered there was first seen for stroke like symptom under the national health A&E. She was put in a corridor and sat untreated for several hours despite having mini strokes. She eventually had a massive stroke still sat in that chair. Why did we spent $20K a week for her to recover in the private ward? Because in the NHS wards there were not planning to do any tests nor given any life prolonging treatment, let alone modern drugs that could have helped reverse the effects of the stroke. In all likleyhood it would have been a death sentance or at best she would have had very poor quality of life. With modern drugs that were available on the private ward but still deemed experimental by the NHS (despite the fact that they had been the standard of care in the US for almost 10 years already) she lived another 12 years and regained most of her functionality.

That was 15 years ago, the sitaution is much worse now.

To say that the Brits or the Canadians have a real choice is naive in the extreme. Over there maybe 5% of the population could afford modern care that could cost in the tens of thousands. Over here at least 70-80% are ensured that care via their insurance. There are plenty of ways to get the other 20-30% covered and reduce costs and that should be our goal, not provide sub standard care to all to insure that additional 20%. We already tried the whole dumbing down race to the lowest common denominator with education and look where that got us.

 

[paj]

Quote from Mvic:

A choice? Riiight.

Because all the Brits have the 20K a week that it costs to get care on the Linden ward, the private wing of St Mary's. Unfortunately my grandmother who recovered there was first seen for stroke like symptom under the national health A&E. She was put in a corridor and sat untreated for several hours despite having mini strokes. She eventually had a massive stroke still sat in that chair. Why did we spent $20K a week for her to recover in the private ward? Because in the NHS wards there were not planning to do any tests nor given any life prolonging treatment, let alone modern drugs that could have helped reverse the effects of the stroke. In all likleyhood it would have been a death sentance or at best she would have had very poor quality of life. With modern drugs that were available on the private ward but still deemed experimental by the NHS (despite the fact that they had been the standard of care in the US for almost 10 years already) she lived another 12 years and regained most of her functionality.

That was 15 years ago, the sitaution is much worse now.

To say that the Brits or the Canadians have a real choice is naive in the extreme. Over there maybe 5% of the population could afford modern care that could cost in the tens of thousands. Over here at least 70-80% are ensured that care via their insurance.

Insurance is also available in the UK, so yes, people do have a real choice. They can also be sure they will never have to choose between treatment and bankruptcy.