Ron Paul says healthcare not a right
- Thread starter Kassz007
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Libertarian ideals built he Country, Trefoil.
Move to Russia or Europe. You'd be more at home.
Move to Russia or Europe. You'd be more at home.
The Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics was SOCIALIST. It held communism as an ideal, but abandoned implementation of Communism after the attempt to do so shortly after the 1917 revolution caused the complete and almost overnight collapse of the Russian economy. We were all supposedly BUILDING toward communism in Russia but we all lived in a socialist state. Marx taught that socialism is the stepping stone to Communism and, alas, my country never got past Socialism. Please DO try to at least learn some history before you feebly attempt to lecture me on the economic structure of my home country.
Yes, I'm deeply intolerant of anyone trying to rob people (including myself) of liberty. I'm just intolerant of institutional slavery to the state in the name of the common good. That's just super crazy of me.
BTW, what did your scrambled brain interpret as my intolerance of the intolerance in Socialism or Communism? If you knew anything at all about Communism, it is in theory the most tolerant thing on earth. Intolerance is not associated with Communism or Socialism but with dictatorial regimes.
The goal of Communism is DEMOCRACY. Mob rule democracy.
Why can't you lefties learn about the crap you're pushing before you open your mouths?
Well said!
I would encourage every person to write their state reps and senators to not only affirm their state's rights but take action that either negates fed law or minimizes it to the point of being useless.
The battle lines are drawn at the state level. US Congress is totally out of control and cannot be stopped, especially after 20+ million illegal aliens are given citizenship at the stroke of a pen before the 2010 election.
The state in which you live is the last hope you have to protect your liberty and freedom before arming up, and you should already be doing that before Obamaâs Civilian National Security Force is fully armed and functional.
Obviously you don't like it here, because you seem to bitch about it, quite loudly.
You've got a point about little guys subsidizing big guys. But the answer isn't to nationalize everything which just screws the middle class and small business even harder.
The cost of nationalized healthcare is enormous: 1.5 Trillion over 10 years is a low-ball joke. Canada spends 10% of its GDP on healthcare, per year! Thats like ~25% of total tax revenue!!
The US equivalent would be 1.4 Trillion, every year, in additional expenditures.
Like running 1 Trillion deficits, each year? Try 2.4 Trillion with Obama?!?
How long will the dollar last then?
The Loving Liberal argument is make "the Rich" pay for it and to hell with consequence.
How about we think up a solution thats both fiscally sustainable and benefits the poor? Like cheaper, private healthcare? What's wrong with that?
Spot on. It all comes down to States Rights, as the Federal Government has effectively declared war on the Constitution and anyone who opposes their absolute authority.
Americans need to realize they can have their cake and eat it too, at the State LEVEL.
If Connecticut or Seattle wants to pay for universal healthcare, thats FINE. They can do so legally, within the jurisdiction of that State, and every resident of Seattle can be issued a photo-id (proof of residence) that entitles them to such service, for a paultry 10%+ additional sales tax. Done and done.
The answer to Governance is STATE LEVEL. Not this one-size-fits-all, top-down Federal Dictatorship which wants the entire Country under its THUMB.
Thats not what the Founders had in mind or enshrined in the Constitution.
Local problems need to be solved LOCALLY.
California has gone BANKRUPT without any type of universal healthcare program.
The only difference between Cali and broader America is the printing press. That's where your "Free" programs will come from!!!!
What happens when the Dollar collapses? What of all this endless Federal charity, welfare and health-care programs then?!?
The Country will literally descend into Chaos when that happens. 1 Trillion deficit per year + 1.4 Trillion more for health + cut revenues from Cap and Trade = Death Spiral.
achilles28: WTF? Free speech is all about complaining. What else would it be for?
Secondly, McCain actually had a good idea about this which Obama is thinking of using: take away, either partially or totally, the tax exemption that corporations enjoy on the money they use to pay for their employees' health care. Eliminating that would fund the transition, and you can bet your house it would lower costs, as your average spoiled corporate employee would very quickly find out just how much that benefit was worth.
Within a few years, our societal cost for healthcare would come down to Canadian levels. The economic benefit would be enormous.
Secondly, McCain actually had a good idea about this which Obama is thinking of using: take away, either partially or totally, the tax exemption that corporations enjoy on the money they use to pay for their employees' health care. Eliminating that would fund the transition, and you can bet your house it would lower costs, as your average spoiled corporate employee would very quickly find out just how much that benefit was worth.
Within a few years, our societal cost for healthcare would come down to Canadian levels. The economic benefit would be enormous.
Correct. It means absolutely nothing in the face of a government which constantly stomps on the constitution that limits its power. But, saying that healthcare (or any good) is a right is equally meaningless because saying it doesn't make it so.
That sentence makes as much sense as any random collection of words. Electricity is not a necessity for survival and your arbitrary declaration that it is does not make it so.
Besides that, it is not regulated because it is deemed to be a necessity and regulation and socialized medicine have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
No wonder Thunderass loves your comment so much. You make less sense than he does.
Also not provided by via single-payer system and completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Great. Let's take your logic to its final conclusion: if everything can be seen as a public good, why not start treating EVERYTHING as a public good and make the government provide EVERYTHING. We did that in Russia and it worked so well.
Where on this thread did you see anyone argue for a private police force? Mowing down straw men is sort of fruitless.
Yes. They pay huge sums for the shittiest health service on earth. I've sampled several European countries and you wouldn't be able to recognize what passes for healthcare in most European countries and Canada. ALL European countries are moving toward privatization but when you combine both public and private expenditures, they pay more and get less. Their healtchare costs are also skyrocketing and the health services are responding by cutting service. However, they are also not as fat as Americans and that Obesity problem is a huge driver for healthcare costs. So, we can expect to be worse off.
Any economies of scale and the elimination of adverse selection (which exists in ALL forms insurance including fire, life, etc. and they somehow manage to get on) would be vastly outweighed by the over-use problem, which tends to happen when there is no incremental cost to the user. The solution? Rationing. So, the promise of single payer - access - is the first thing to go under single payer.
The hold conclusion and analysis is a hot mess. Health insurance didn't stop me from leaving the I-bank and starting my own company. I got insurance right away. Never stopped anyone I know from starting their own business.
The problem is that there IS no market for health care. States mandates raise the cost of insurance by limiting choice. This means that if in NY you want just catastrophic coverage, you can't get it. State by state regulation means that moving from one state to another constitutes a break in coverage and a circumstance to deny further insurance for that arbitrary reason. The system is so screwed up because it already operates VERY much like socialized medicine and every single one of these screwed up, cost raising, coverage denying measures is made possible by the very government that you want to entrust to provide you and your family with better healthcare. I can only laugh - but that's only because I can afford to buy my medical care privately and the majority of you guys screaming for socialized medicine can't.
Quote from achilles28:
Spot on. It all comes down to States Rights, as the Federal Government has effectively declared war on the Constitution and anyone who opposes their absolute authority.
Americans need to realize they can have their cake and eat it too, at the State LEVEL.
If Connecticut or Seattle wants to pay for universal healthcare, thats FINE. They can do so legally, within the jurisdiction of that State, and every resident of Seattle can be issued a photo-id (proof of residence) that entitles them to such service, for a paultry 10%+ additional sales tax. Done and done.
The answer to Governance is STATE LEVEL. Not this one-size-fits-all, top-down Federal Dictatorship which wants the entire Country under its THUMB.
Thats not what the Founders had in mind or enshrined in the Constitution.
Local problems need to be solved LOCALLY.
California has gone BANKRUPT without any type of universal healthcare program.
The only difference between Cali and broader America is the printing press. That's where your "Free" programs will come from!!!!
What happens when the Dollar collapses? What of all this endless Federal charity, welfare and health-care programs then?!?
The Country will literally descend into Chaos when that happens. 1 Trillion deficit per year + 1.4 Trillion more for health + cut revenues from Cap and Trade = Death Spiral.
Bravo, sir. Well done.