Ron Howard's explination of what is a US Liberal

I was going to participate in this thread, but after that section there?

Godwin's Law invoked.

Lazy. Godwin's law can't be so heavily applied it lets the fascists do anything they want in plain sight :)

The law is only applicable involving a rebuttal, not to the opening. Otherwise it would be impossible to discuss Nazis on the internet.
 
So anyone disagree with any of the points except on a misunderstanding Godwin's law?

And if not, what is actually going on?

Discussions about Nazis are fine...If the original subject is, in fact, Nazis. There was no point to bring it up regarding your liberal thoughts.
 
Addressing the listed issues
We do take care of the weakest members, just not as well as we should or could. Grade C-.

Healthcare is a privilege like everything else. We have no rights. That said we should and could do better. Good start would be tort reform to reduce cost. C+
Post secondary tuition is out of control. First address why cost is so high. Quality of education is pitiful. Far too much emphasis on social justice rather than learning. Grade F
Social programs cost money so we have taxes. Most programs are useful and well intentioned. Very poorly managed and filled with corruption. Grade D
Fast food isn't a career and pays accordingly. Most skilled positions are grossly underpaid. Most senior managers are grossly overpaid. Don't really know how to fix that, but we need to address it in a nonpartisan way. Lots of lip service, little action. Grade D
All forms of organized religion should be free to teach whatever they want in the proper venues. Needs to be completely removed from politics unless they start paying taxes. Political pandering for voters needs to stop.Grade F
Gay and lesbians do have the same rights. There will always be some discrimination. Impossible to undo sins of the past. No retributions for this or anything else. Too much pandering to the activists and mentally ill fringe. Shouldn't even be a political issue. Grade D
More later
 
Discussions about Nazis are fine...If the original subject is, in fact, Nazis. There was no point to bring it up regarding your liberal thoughts.

It is in the original subject.

"11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past."

Leaving the drift in this direction since the Nixon impeachment aside Trump is a copycat.

Smart enough to copy but not be truly original. He copied Barron Hilton, Roy Cohen, others and when as a German (not Swedish) when he needed a winning strategy for a nation.. He copied guess who and gang. Its absolutely clear, if you think not I can't see how you can be serious.
 
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Addressing the listed issues
We do take care of the weakest members, just not as well as we should or could. Grade C-.

Healthcare is a privilege like everything else. We have no rights. That said we should and could do better. Good start would be tort reform to reduce cost. C+
Post secondary tuition is out of control. First address why cost is so high. Quality of education is pitiful. Far too much emphasis on social justice rather than learning. Grade F
Social programs cost money so we have taxes. Most programs are useful and well intentioned. Very poorly managed and filled with corruption. Grade D
Fast food isn't a career and pays accordingly. Most skilled positions are grossly underpaid. Most senior managers are grossly overpaid. Don't really know how to fix that, but we need to address it in a nonpartisan way. Lots of lip service, little action. Grade D
All forms of organized religion should be free to teach whatever they want in the proper venues. Needs to be completely removed from politics unless they start paying taxes. Political pandering for voters needs to stop.Grade F
Gay and lesbians do have the same rights. There will always be some discrimination. Impossible to undo sins of the past. No retributions for this or anything else. Too much pandering to the activists and mentally ill fringe. Shouldn't even be a political issue. Grade D
More later

So.. So far you hold basically the same values as many right wing news pundits etc. badge as liberal. Most liberals agree I expect that rights are silly as anything that can be taken away is a privilege.
 
I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does. Let's break it down, shall we? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. PERIOD.

America already does this. All republicans agree that we should take care of our weakest members only we go one step further and wish to protect the unborn. Something liberals don't agree with.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege. Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

Lets say for a minute that healthcare was a right. Does this mean you think that the government should pay for our rights? Will the government buy me a gun, because we have the right to bare arms? Will the government pay for me to start my own newspaper(freedom of the press)? This is a common deceptive tactic of the left. Call something a "right" like healthcare, but what they really mean is the right to take money from someone else to pay for it.

3. I believe education should be affordable. It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

It's 2020. All human knowledge is easily and cheaply reached on the internet. There is nothing that is taught at a university that can't be googled.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

This entire paragraph contradicted itself.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

This sentence is way too simplistic in its thinking. People that think this way are almost NEVER paying any federal income tax.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

Companies pay the fair market rate to their employees. If there are 100,000 labor jobs and 200,000 people willing to work those jobs, the wages are going to be low. If there are 100,000 labor jobs and 50,000 workers to fill those jobs, the wages will be high. If you want to earn more, do something that is in demand.

7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

What scripture did some politician try to legislate into law? Thou shall not kills? Thou shall not steal?

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

They did have the SAME rights as us before gay marriage. They were allowed to marry someone of the opposite sex, just like straight couples were allowed and they were not allowed to marry someone of the same sex just like straight couples were not allowed. So these weren't the *same* rights they wanted. They were special rights.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

No, you think they should get to break the law and not suffer the consequences. If you steal $10, you should have to pay back $10 when caught to be made whole. If you break an item in the store, you should have to pay for it to make the store owner whole. If you break the law to come here illegally, the way to make the victim whole is to send them back. It's common sense.


10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

Agree mostly with this.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist. Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

Apparently you haven't read enough because you'd realize the Nazis were about giving free healthcare and disarming the public.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

The irony of being against racism and misogyny and in the next sentence saying something racist and misandristic. *shakes head*

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is the enforcement of present laws and enacting new, common sense gun regulations. Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine.

There should be no laws with guns. It's in the bill of rights. But your whole statement is a lie when you say "common sense gun regulations". We know what that means. That means coming after the guns YOU find scary.

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

I believe this too. But I don't think there should be a law punishing people who arent.

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

This is a big topic to touch on. Obviously, we'd all love it if we could just switch to solar and wind tomorrow and not have any devastating economic effects. But the truth is, when renewable energy is cheaper than dirty energy, we will switch over no matter what.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?
I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.

Can you tell me one job where women who do the same work(and bring the same value) as men don't get paid the same? I said it like that because I know you'll bring up womens soccer. They do the same work, but they don't bring the same value because they don't get the viewership so while it's technically the same work, it's not the same value. But of course theres the other side of the coin too. Like women make 10x more for the same work in porn that men do. It's all about value.
 
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