Romney and representation without taxation

nursebee · Sep 18, 2012

All of these points were raised in my house prior to eating breakfast. What I'd like is help in fleshing out the debate in favor of no representation without taxation

Martinghoul · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from wildchild:
The dems have employed a strategy to stay in power by manipulation the tax code to assure themselves power. It is a strategy they have employed since at least the 1930s. The only thing that somewhat neutralizes the strategy is the fact that these people who are not paying into the system tend to be indifferent to voting as they have no real skin in the game.

This is a strategy that is employed by all American politicians, regardless of the party they belong to. There's ample evidence for this.

BSAM · Sep 18, 2012

Scrap the income tax; implement consumption tax.
All is fair.
Economy explodes upwards.

Martinghoul · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from Tsing Tao:
Simply extend the tax paying requirement to include property tax as well. For those who pay no tax at all (income, property or whatever) they should have no vote as they have no skin in the game. Sales tax does not count.

Again, I can agree with that in principle (and I like the certain antique, back-to-basics ring to it). However, there's still all sorts of questions. Like, for example, do you make this binary? Specifically, will I be able to vote if I buy a 1 sq ft patch in the desert for a few bucks and will my vote count as much as, I dunno, Donlad Trump's? And, still, what do you do about people who are not paying taxes through obviously no fault of theirs?

Martinghoul · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from nursebee:
All of these points were raised in my house prior to eating breakfast. What I'd like is help in fleshing out the debate in favor of no representation without taxation

The simplest and the clearest point is that representation without taxation leads to suboptimal economic decision-making in the allocation of common resources.

BSAM · Sep 18, 2012

Why is it okay for the rich to exploit the tax (scam) code, but when the poor do the same thing, it is wrong?

Eight · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from wildchild:

The dems have employed a strategy to stay in power by manipulation the tax code to assure themselves power. It is a strategy they have employed since at least the 1930s. The only thing that somewhat neutralizes the strategy is the fact that these people who are not paying into the system tend to be indifferent to voting as they have no real skin in the game.

That is why Democrats go on the campaign trail in Black areas and stir up racism, it's the thing that gets Black voters off their asses to vote. Watching that idiot of a VP try to "talk all ghetto" is stomach wrenching to say the least.

Tsing Tao · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from Martinghoul:

Again, I can agree with that in principle (and I like the certain antique, back-to-basics ring to it). However, there's still all sorts of questions. Like, for example, do you make this binary? Specifically, will I be able to vote if I buy a 1 sq ft patch in the desert for a few bucks and will my vote count as much as, I dunno, Donlad Trump's? And, still, what do you do about people who are not paying taxes through obviously no fault of theirs?

It needs to be done, regardless of the how.

L-Kabong · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from Lucrum:

It already has led to the question. It's simply not fare or just that non income tax payers get to vote themselves entitlements and handouts paid for by those that do pay.

Well, I have paid Fed and state income taxes, payroll taxes, every year since 1984, and property taxes either indirectly (rent)
or directly since then. I only mention that so I "qualify " to speak on the matter.

The SS benefits I am inline for Social Security, have been indexed based on what I have paid over the years. I get a statement once a year. Even those below the Federal income tax threshold are paying medicare and SS taxes. But let's put that aside because your argument is if you don't pay INCOME tax, you should not get to vote. Okay. How much income tax do you need to pay in order to vote? $1? $100? $1000? $10,000? Is it a percent of one's income? If I pay 4 times as much Federal tax as you Lucrum, can I vote 4 times as much as you, or will my vote carry 4 times the weight as yours in the Presidential elections?

You will probably offer the notion of a flat tax of some kind for a vote. But why would I agree to that if I am paying 4 times as much federal tax as you are?

And how are you going to get a voting tax instituted anyway when your stated goal is to stop the no Fed tax people from voting? They aren't going to agree to that tax, are they?

Maybe we ought to just raise taxes so the lower income segments pay some Federal tax. . Oops, that would put the retardicans in a real quandary. Grover would hold thier nuts to the fire.

Tsing Tao · Sep 18, 2012

Quote from L-Kabong:

Well, I have paid Fed and state income taxes, payroll taxes, every year since 1984, and property taxes either indirectly (rent)
or directly since then. I only mention that so I "qualify " to speak on the matter.

The SS benefits I am inline for Social Security, have been indexed based on what I have paid over the years. I get a statement once a year. Even those below the Federal income tax threshold are paying medicare and SS taxes. But let's put that aside because your argument is if you don't pay INCOME tax, you should not get to vote. Okay. How much income tax do you need to pay in order to vote? $1? $100? $1000? $10,000? Is it a percent of one's income? If I pay 4 times as much Federal tax as you Lucrum, can I vote 4 times as much as you, or will my vote carry 4 times the weight as yours in the Presidential elections?

You will probably offer the notion of a flat tax of some kind for a vote. But why would I agree to that if I am paying 4 times as much federal tax as you are?

And how are you going to get a voting tax instituted anyway when your stated goal is to stop the no Fed tax people from voting? They aren't going to agree to that tax, are they?

Maybe we ought to just raise taxes so the lower income segments pay some Federal tax. . Oops, that would put the retardicans in a real quandary. Grover would hold thier nuts to the fire.

You could solve all of this with a flat consumption based tax (no income tax) and a balanced budget amendment prohibiting Congress from ever running a deficit. Then it no longer matters who votes for what.