RJO Futures' strange commission schedule

B

Brighton

RJO Futures recently released a trading platform called RJO Futures Pro. It appears to be a re-branded version of CQG Interactive Client, or perhaps somewhere between CQG Trader and CQQ IC. I'm not an expert on CQG features, but the RJO product does have charts and a pretty decent options package, which is why I'm guessing that it's somewhere between the mid-range CQG Trader and the higher-end Interactive Client.

I downloaded the demo, messed around with it for a while and it looked pretty good. An RJO broker called a day or two later and asked if I had any questions. I made it clear that I am only interested in self-directed trading and if the commissions were OK, I'd open an account at $100K+. I don't need a news stream, RJO research, advice, suggestions, etc. I send in money, I get access to their platform and as long as it works, they'll never hear from me again.

For completely self-directed (online) traders, the commission is $7 PER SIDE plus exchange and NFA fees. For a mid-range of services the price is $17 per side. For their full service offering it's $25 per side. The pricing for self-directed seems way out of whack. They are two to three times as expensive as retail-focused shops like Think or Swim or OptionsXpress and about 10 times as expensive as Interactive Brokers, Crossland/Deep Discount Trading or a couple of others out there at 50 cents a side.

I'm willing to pay something for a decent platform but I'm scratching my head as to who their intended customer base is. $7 per side is just nuts, especially when you can find introducing brokers (IBs) with RJO as their FCM, and those IBs offer adequate platforms at a buck or two per side.

Maybe I got a wet-behind-the-ears broker? Or is RJO focused on really small-time guys and their IB relationships but nothing in the middle?

Any ideas on how to get "market" rates in a direct relationship?

Thanks.
 
QTrader = CQGIC ... just the FCM branded edition.... you can get CQGIC directly from CQG... it will set you back about $1500 depending on what you get... you can get a discount by going with Shepard International as an IB to FCStone... $16-$17RT is a rip-off in this day and age... if you execute 100 1 lot trades you can with the savings get yourself CQGIC directly and go with anyone offering $4/RT...

Quote from Brighton:

RJO Futures recently released a trading platform called RJO Futures Pro. It appears to be a re-branded version of CQG Interactive Client, or perhaps somewhere between CQG Trader and CQQ IC. I'm not an expert on CQG features, but the RJO product does have charts and a pretty decent options package, which is why I'm guessing that it's somewhere between the mid-range CQG Trader and the higher-end Interactive Client.

I downloaded the demo, messed around with it for a while and it looked pretty good. An RJO broker called a day or two later and asked if I had any questions. I made it clear that I am only interested in self-directed trading and if the commissions were OK, I'd open an account at $100K+. I don't need a news stream, RJO research, advice, suggestions, etc. I send in money, I get access to their platform and as long as it works, they'll never hear from me again.

For completely self-directed (online) traders, the commission is $7 PER SIDE plus exchange and NFA fees. For a mid-range of services the price is $17 per side. For their full service offering it's $25 per side. The pricing for self-directed seems way out of whack. They are two to three times as expensive as retail-focused shops like Think or Swim or OptionsXpress and about 10 times as expensive as Interactive Brokers, Crossland/Deep Discount Trading or a couple of others out there at 50 cents a side.

I'm willing to pay something for a decent platform but I'm scratching my head as to who their intended customer base is. $7 per side is just nuts, especially when you can find introducing brokers (IBs) with RJO as their FCM, and those IBs offer adequate platforms at a buck or two per side.

Maybe I got a wet-behind-the-ears broker? Or is RJO focused on really small-time guys and their IB relationships but nothing in the middle?

Any ideas on how to get "market" rates in a direct relationship?

Thanks.
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Quote from ofthomas:

hmmm... flawed statement... MFG had 8Billion in Seg Funds... still went belly up... sure, they made stupid bets... but you assume that because an FCM tailors to smaller traders that means they are useless...

I would not pay higher trading costs just because an FCM seems safe... I rather make sure they are safe and Seg Funds mean very little... I prefer to look at the health of the FCM financially, not just how much $$$ they have for clients..
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of course u wouldnt pay a high cost because u are a small trader. Clearing firm like RJO only wants big traders and institutional because that is where they make money the most and they will treat them as a Hero. Small traders belong in the ghetto and will get cheap service, cheap router.
 
Quote from emg:

of course u wouldnt pay a high cost because u are a small trader. Clearing firm like RJO only wants big traders and institutional because that is where they make money the most and they will treat them as a Hero. Small traders belong in the ghetto and will get cheap service, cheap router.
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am sorry, I didnt realize you were on the buy side, because for the amount of crap that flows out of you I must assume your account is at least $1B...

d00d, there is always someone that is a small trader... even those with $5M account are small traders... even within the institutional world... otherwise, there wouldnt be a need for mini-primes... but what do I know..

as to RJO, just like MFG, they have tons of Introducing brokers, those target the small traders, so assuming that asset base represents larger institutional traders is rather naive/dumb to begin with...
 
I had a few odd conversations with RJO four (or so) years ago. The polite young lady quoted me a rate that I couldn't live with although I believe it was close to $7 RT rather than per side. I told her it was pretty far out of wack and she began to give a research/service pitch. I explained that I strictly traded price with no fundemental input -- not even news -- and that if any broker ever told me anything that smacked of research I would leave the firm that day and further if I needed much service it could only be because the platform or feed was a loser and in that event I would pull the account.

I thought I was pretty clear and that she got the message. As a born and bred New Yorker I'm not much for the subtle approach to sales people. Six or eight weeks later she callled back wanting to know if I might give them a try to see what a great firm they were. I told her of course I could and that as soon as she could come back "all in" around $4 RT on ES and under $4.75 on CL with a feed and platform I liked we could talk. I felt those were OK prices given my low volume and their balance sheet compared to the really small firms and I was unhappy with IB's day trade margins. Reducing counter party risk has value and reduced margin can as well.

I assumed she was gone forever. Amazingly she came back a month later and told me she might be able to do both ES and CL @ $6 RT if I could commit that day. I became a good deal less subtle starting from a very low base. The sales process was astonishing. Admittedly I called them for a rate so the first call was justified but beyond that it became sureal.
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

I had a few odd conversations with RJO four (or so) years ago. The polite young lady quoted me a rate that I couldn't live with although I believe it was close to $7 RT rather than per side. I told her it was pretty far out of wack and she began to give a research/service pitch. I explained that I strictly traded price with no fundemental input -- not even news -- and that if any broker ever told me anything that smacked of research I would leave the firm that day and further if I needed much service it could only be because the platform or feed was a loser and in that event I would pull the account.

I thought I was pretty clear and that she got the message. As a born and bred New Yorker I'm not much for the subtle approach to sales people. Six or eight weeks later she callled back wanting to know if I might give them a try to see what a great firm they were. I told her of course I could and that as soon as she could come back "all in" around $4 RT on ES and under $4.75 on CL with a feed and platform I liked we could talk. I felt those were fair prices given my low volume and their balance sheet compared to the really small firms. rReducing counter party risk has value.

I assumed she was gone forever. Amazingly she came back a month later and told me she might be able to do both ES and CL @ $6 RT if I could commit that day. I became a good deal less subtle starting from a very low base. The sales process was astonishing. Admittedly I called them for a rate so the first call was justified but beyond that it became sureal.
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4.75/RT in CL is still a lot.... I thought 1.10/RT all-in was expensive
 
No one can do all-in $1.10/RT retail on CL. Exchange fees alone wipe that out and more.

Quote from Eyez:

4.75/RT in CL is still a lot.... I thought 1.10/RT all-in was expensive
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Quote from Swan Noir:

No one can do all-in $1.10/RT retail on CL. Exchange fees alone wipe that out and more.
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you are thinking retail... exchange members can be as low as 60c or less depending on the broker and membership type.....

edit: just realized the $1.10 was RT... in that case, that is about right for exchange members (depending on membership type.)
 
Of course I'm thinking retail. The entire premise of the thread is retail and every post in it (save yours) is retail and I say retail in my post.

So .. ya ... I'm thinking retail. Even as a member executing through a firm CL all-in $1.10 RT requires real volume.

Quote from ofthomas:

you are thinking retail... exchange members can be as low as 60c or less depending on the broker and membership type.....

edit: just realized the $1.10 was RT... in that case, that is about right for exchange members (depending on membership type.)
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