Rickards: ‘Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme’

Hoi said:
That's BS. I do not get paid anything if you buy 1 Bitcoin.
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Sure you do. You get paid the value increase. And hon, don't be so angry...

The value increase is due to new money coming into bitcoin. Since new bitcoins have been constantly generated, without new, incoming money, there would be no value increase. Pretty simple. Very similar to stocks, shall I say.

Back in the old days when nobody cared and there was no new incoming capital, the price lingered in a small range forever. Once the new flow of extra money started, bitcoin took off.
 
Pekelo said:
Very similar to stocks, shall I say.
.
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Exactly! Which doesn't make it a Ponzi.

And you buying 1 Bitcoin (for $5600) doesn't change the price one bit, at all. For that you have to buy more than 1800 coins a day. The number of newly mined coins each day (inflation). This in contrast of you buying one share IBM (fixed supply).
 
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Hoi said:
1.Exactly! Which doesn't make it a Ponzi.

And you buying 1 Bitcoin (for $5600) doesn't change the price one bit, at all. For that you have to buy more than 1800 coins a day. The number of newly mined coins each day (inflation). This in contrast of you buying one share IBM (fixed supply).
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1. Except as I already showed, some stocks ARE basically ponzis. Any non-profitable stock with a failing/faulty business idea is nothing but playing singing chairs, aka ponzi. So the stock comparison is not really a positive one.

2. Sometimes companies (Tesla is a fav example) raise more money by diluting their sharepool by issuing new stocks. Somebody has to buy those extra shares, otherwise price would just tank, because hey, we were promised limited number of shares, and now suddenly new shares?
Again, just think back of the early days of bitcoin. Back then 10K-20K new coins were mined a day or more, eventually buyers had to come in for those coins. And as a counterexample, the hundreds of worthless alt-coins where the new buyers never came in, and price never increased.

Look, you are fighting a losing battle, this is Economy 101. Cryptos are ponzi-esque by nature, so are some stocks, end of story.
 
Hoi said:
No, it only proves that I cannot teach someone who doesn't want to use his brains.... My fault, sorry.
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Facts, logically valid arguments and cheerfulness win me over anytime. In the maintime, here is a 6 years old thread where I argued that because of its unsustainable business model, GRPN was a ponzi:

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/groupon-is-a-straight-up-ponzi-scheme.222051/

Price went from 28 (I wrote the post before the IPO) to 3 to 12 to back 3. Once a company is changing its profile because they realize the original idea was bunk, then it is a different company. But until they do that, they are on the road to bankruptcy. Ask Mr. Keynes...

"Under the ticker GRPN, Groupon began trading Friday at about 10:45 a.m. ET on the Nasdaq stock exchange, and opened at $28, 40% above the target. Raising $700 million for the company, Groupon's IPO was the second-biggest tech IPO in history, behind the $1.7 billion Google raised in 2004. Nov 4, 2011"
 
maxinger said:
Who is going to publish

HOW TO PROFIT MASSIVELY FROM BITCOIN WHICH IS A PONZI SCHEME.
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Already in the works! :)

via Imgflip Meme Generator

1y3mbm
 
Pekelo said:
Facts, logically valid arguments and cheerfulness win me over anytime. In the maintime, here is a 6 years old thread where I argued that because of its unsustainable business model, GRPN was a ponzi:

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/groupon-is-a-straight-up-ponzi-scheme.222051/

Price went from 28 (I wrote the post before the IPO) to 3 to 12 to back 3. Once a company is changing its profile because they realize the original idea was bunk, then it is a different company. But until they do that, they are on the road to bankruptcy. Ask Mr. Keynes...

"Under the ticker GRPN, Groupon began trading Friday at about 10:45 a.m. ET on the Nasdaq stock exchange, and opened at $28, 40% above the target. Raising $700 million for the company, Groupon's IPO was the second-biggest tech IPO in history, behind the $1.7 billion Google raised in 2004. Nov 4, 2011"
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Don't know anything about GRPN. But I'm very sure that if that was a Ponzi, the SEC would bring them to justice. As it is a real crime. As far as I know SEC didn't do that, it even didn't with Herbalife (which is in my opinion a real Ponzi). Bitcoin isn't even close to SEC's, IMF's and Justice definition of a Ponzi. Your opinion (nor mine) isn't counting in this respect.
 
I think it's closer to relate bitcoin to gold than to stocks.

1. They are limited in supply.
2. They are accepted as a mean of transaction.
3. Their prices fluctuate depending on the demand and supply (sentiment).
 
Hoi said:
if that was a Ponzi, the SEC would bring them to justice. As it is a real crime. As far as I know SEC didn't do that, it even didn't with Herbalife (which is in my opinion a real Ponzi).
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Come on, the SEC is sleeping at the wheel, just watch the Big Short.

As much as I hate Ackman, I have to agree with him and you, HLF is a pyramid scheme with a product connected with it. But just because there is a product that doesn't make it not a pyramid/ponzi. (see Tesla) :)

The point is, the SEC several times either don't want or can't act.
 
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