Richard Dennis and Turtles In Chicago Tuesday

[Trend Following]

Quote from patoo:

However, they never got hired as neophytes with no background to be taught by Dennis.

Many if not all were neophytes. Their backgrounds before being hired are a matter of record. The only Turtle with substantial trading experience was Rabar. If you want to debate 'neophyte', fine, but they had no experience in the trading they were trained in.

 

[ARealGannTrader]

Quote from Uncle_Ho:

And on a second note. I personally do not think trend following is a viable strategy. Trend followers are always late to the party. I prefer predicting the trend, then following it. It seems to me that the drawdown can be avoided. I look to get in on the first early retracement of a trend, if it doesn't happen, so what, you miss a trade, big deal. I think why trend following fails in general is the same reason why trading fails for people in general. Because everyone has a different affinity for accepting loss. Some too soon, some too late, and some are just right. Kinda like the three little bears. LOL.

Every single candle bar that is considered a reversal bar is a trend on a lower time frame.

It is not a matter of whether u trade trends, it is a matter of how quickly u spot the trend u trade.

 

[EPrado]

Quote from Landis82:

A buddy of mine took the other side of the "vulture" trade that occurred when the clearing firm that handled Niederhoffer's S&P options positions came in that one Tuesday morning at the end of October 1997 at the CME and started buying back those naked puts.

The Vol was pumped-up to obscene levels and my buddy knew that if the market just traded "flat" for a day or two, he'd make a small fortune.

Michael Goodwin made $45 million on that "vulture" trade for the equity derivatives desk at Deutsche Bank that week. Got a nice year end bonus, too!

Yeah, I believe VN whined and cried that it was the guys in the SP options pit who caused him to go under. I think he even tried a lawsuit vs the CME. Pretty hilarious.

 

[Sushi]

Quote from EPrado:

Yeah, I believe VN whined and cried that it was the guys in the SP options pit who caused him to go under. I think he even tried a lawsuit vs the CME. Pretty hilarious.

hohohoho. Other than winning the lawsuit, it's just hilarious chucklehead!

 

[Sushi]

Rumor says Dennis is homo and this is how he choose the turtle true ?

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Trend Following:

Buffett is a great success, no doubt. So questioning a billionaire many times over is not often looked at as wise. That said BRKB had a high of 5059 and closed at 2801 the other day. Dennis hit that thresh hold and was labeled as having blown out. Why don't people talk about Buffett as being in a nasty drawdown now? Is he wearing a <i>bathing suit</i>?

My earlier comment was in connection with marketsurfer's ongoing defense of everything Niederhoffer (of the Victor variety).

I'm not prepared to comment on Buffett's performance because his time frame is outside of my experience and context. However, there is no denying the man's genius in the fullness of time. I am also not denying Dennis his due, although he is obviously not in the same league as Buffett and had his own notable stumbles.

However, I am prepared to comment on marketsurfer's sycophantic adulation of VN. And so I do. On a risk adjusted basis, VN's trading performance does not compare well with many of the people marketsurfer incessantly criticizes. No one disagrees that, all else being equal, a higher return necessitates a higher level of risk. However, what marketsurfer fails to accept or recognize is that all else is not equal. Demonstrably, VN's risk was more outsized than the return that such risk generated.

 

[EPrado]

Quote from Sushi:

hohohoho. Other than winning the lawsuit, it's just hilarious chucklehead!

Regardless of the outcome I find it hilarious that the guy gets destroyed using the most basic of basic tactics and then blames the same guys he needed to do these trades over the years. Even funnier, years later implementing the same strategy he blows out once again and losses all his friends/families money. I guess all those people invested with the wrong Niederhoffer.


I guess you are bored since you can't suck off that Doug Allen guy anymore huh? What is your purpose on here besides acting like a complete jackass?

 

[EPrado]

Quote from Thunderdog:

My earlier comment was in connection with marketsurfer's ongoing defense of everything Niederhoffer (of the Victor variety).

I'm not prepared to comment on Buffett's performance because his time frame is outside of my experience and context. However, there is no denying the man's genius in the fullness of time. I am also not denying Dennis his due, although he is obviously not in the same league as Buffett and had his own notable stumbles.

However, I am prepared to comment on marketsurfer's sycophantic adulation of VN. And so I do. On a risk adjusted basis, VN's trading performance does not compare well with many of the people marketsurfer incessantly criticizes. No one disagrees that, all else being equal, a higher return necessitates a higher level of risk. However, what marketsurfer fails to accept or recognize is that all else is not equal. Demonstrably, VN's risk was more outsized than the return that such risk generated.

In the end one very important thing matters. People who invested with Neiderhoffer lost everything not once, but twice. People who invested with JWH, Dunn, other TF's, are extremely pleased with the results over the long term and still have had GREAT returns. Most importantly, still have their money and then some.


Surf is blind to the obvious. The numbers dont lie. You really can't compare VN to any fund that is still going.

 

[Sushi]

Quote from EPrado:

Regardless of the outcome I find it hilarious that the guy gets destroyed using the most basic of basic tactics and then blames the same guys he needed to do these trades over the years. Even funnier, years later implementing the same strategy he blows out once again and losses all his friends/families money. I guess all those people invested with the wrong Niederhoffer.


I guess you are bored since you can't suck off that Doug Allen guy anymore huh? What is your purpose on here besides acting like a complete jackass?

nooooo. Being forced to liquidate due to collusion in the Pitt is nothing to worry about. It doesn't matter does it? Chucklehead!

Doug Allen funds traders. What do you do?

 

[EPrado]

Quote from Sushi:

nooooo. Being forced to liquidate due to collusion in the Pitt is nothing to worry about. It doesn't matter does it? Chucklehead!

Doug Allen funds traders. What do you do?

Too funny. You actually believe it was the pit guys who knocked him out. I guess every loser trader can use that excuse.