Retail vs Prop

[EricP]

Quote from Don Bright:

We never ask for code from the automated programs.

Wow, that is really generous. Are you serious?

Quote from Don Bright:

We pay full Goldman Sachs interest on money from short stock sales, retail does not.

The first part of this statement is meaningless, without providing the current short interest rates of Goldman (what are they currently paying on a ~$250k short balance, if you don't mind?). The second part of this statement is intentionally misleading, as you are well aware that short interest IS paid by the largest retail firm used by readers of this board.

Marketing first, last and foremost. Just try not to go overboard, or you might start sounding like Oliver Velez. Unless you can explain your short interest statement, I would suggest that it sounds like snake oil salesmanship (i.e. intentionally incorrect or misleading).

Quote from HoundDogOne:

There is a REASON successful hedge funds are VERY SECRETIVE.

If you go prop...
You will ZERO protection in terms of "intellectual property"...
And IF you are doing something creative and profitable...
The firm will pile dozens of traders into your game.

This has nothing to do with ethics... it's just real life.

I couldn't agree more. Well put.

Quote from Don Bright:

And, please help yourself to whatever</b> the market or <b>our traders can provide for you, we're doing fine,

=> I think this is HoundDog's concern.

 

[NYOBScalper]

Quote from Don Bright:


$25K x 4 = $100K, very limiting, not to mention he other Pattern Daytrader restrictions. This is about 2000 shares of a $50.00 stock or 4 lots of 500...how in the heck are you going to make a decent 6 figure income with that? Now, if you have a $million or more to use, then maybe retail is ok for you.

Don

Um, are you kidding me? Trading 2000 shares of a $50 stock, netting $1000/day with losing days is very very very achievable with even a minimal edge strategy.

I know traders who make 6 figures in a month who don't use more than 500,000... you only need all that BP for churning with pairs trades, which doesn't help the trader make more money but helps the bright clan make twice the commissions per transaction.

 

[hedgeking]

don brights bragging for years on end is getting old. he acts like his firm is mighty and above all others. the bottom line and it can't be denied is bright charges 2-3 times what many high vol traders pay at other firms. those are the facts and bright can dispute it till he's blue in the face. ib who eric was referring too pays interest on short balances. another misconception i think don is brewing is he's making it sound like he's allowing all to take big overnites. i'm willing to bet anything most of the overnites bright allows are hedged to the tee. why do you think don has always pushed pairs? it protects his firm at all times. thats smart and i commend him. DON IF I START TOMMORROW WITH 25K DOWN CAN I CARRY OVERNITES OF 2 MIL ARE MORE?

 

[EricP]

Quote from hedgeking:

don brights bragging for years on end is getting old. he acts like his firm is mighty and above all others. the bottom line and it can't be denied is bright charges 2-3 times what many high vol traders pay at other firms. those are the facts and bright can dispute it till he's blue in the face. ib who eric was referring too pays interest on short balances. another misconception i think don is brewing is he's making it sound like he's allowing all to take big overnites. i'm willing to bet anything most of the overnites bright allows are hedged to the tee. why do you think don has always pushed pairs? it protects his firm at all times. thats smart and i commend him. DON IF I START TOMMORROW WITH 25K DOWN CAN I CARRY OVERNITES OF 2 MIL ARE MORE?

The sad thing is that Don continues to repost the same incorrect and misleading statements. Here, he does the same thing in another thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1489825&highlight=short+interest#post1489825

Actually, to the original poster, the linked thread above should be read for more information the comparison of retail versus prop.

As a disclaimer... I've never had an account at either IB or Bright trading. I've traded both 'retail prop' (i.e. unlicensed LLC prop) as well as traditional retail, and am currently trading retail.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from EricP:

Wow, that is really generous. Are you serious?






The first part of this statement is meaningless, without providing the current short interest rates of Goldman (what are they currently paying on a ~$250k short balance, if you don't mind?). The second part of this statement is intentionally misleading, as you are well aware that short interest IS paid by the largest retail firm used by readers of this board.

Marketing first, last and foremost. Just try not to go overboard, or you might start sounding like Oliver Velez. Unless you can explain your short interest statement, I would suggest that it sounds like snake oil salesmanship (i.e. intentionally incorrect or misleading).




I couldn't agree more. Well put.




=> I think this is HoundDog's concern.

Current Short Stock Interest Rate is 5% from Goldman.

As far as all the derogatory statements go, I guess I'll just smile and assume that there will always be anonymous critics espousing their views, regardless of the facts involved. After all, correcting erroneous statements made by ET'ers 7 years ago was how I first came to post here. Over the years I have never seen any other Firm be nearly as open and transparent as I have tried to be here on the board or elsewhere.

I don't slight any "daytrader" who is still cranking out 6 figures with very little BP, all I try to do is state as clearly as I can how our tradersmake money. Our Opening strategy is still providing excellent incomes to many, but cannot be done without a good amount of BP. Market neutral strategies are taught and engaged in only by experienced traders who understand all the ramifications and costs involved. High volume traders at Bright pay very competitive rates, and enjoy the BP and security of our Firm (or else they wouldn't be coming here from other Firm's).

I take solace in all the positive things I hear from so many ET'ers (over the years) who actually compliment me/us for not getting angry at all this negativity.

Anyway, we'll be here......and I'll continue to do my best to help as many as possible with any aspect of their trading career.

All the best everyone,

Don

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Don Bright:

As far as all the derogatory statements go, I guess I'll just smile and assume that there will always be anonymous critics espousing their views, regardless of the facts involved. After all, correcting erroneous statements made by ET'ers 7 years ago was how I first came to post here. Over the years I have never seen any other Firm be nearly as open and transparent as I have tried to be here on the board or elsewhere.

I take solace in all the positive things I hear from so many ET'ers (over the years) who actually compliment me/us for not getting angry at all this negativity.

Anyway, we'll be here......and I'll continue to do my best to help as many as possible with any aspect of their trading career.

I commend you for responding to the many critical and negative posts in such a mature and professional manner. I've never traded with Bright so I have no bias one way or the other.

I've traded full time for almost 12 years now, exclusively retail. My rates could be lower if I went elsewhere but paying a slightly higher rate and having such good client support is worth it to me.

I sense that's what Bright is all about --- offering a more comprehensive package to their traders than some other prop firms at a slightly higher cost.

If traders continue to move to Bright from other prop firms then I assume you're doing something right --- to the dismay of some of the ET critics I suppose.

 

[trdrcbot]

trade futures retail with a pro firm like advantage that caters ONLY to independent traders (mostly ex cbot floor traders) and youll get RTs in the 1$ range. Futures offer natural leverage so you dont need to have more than 30-50k in your account at any given point to be able to trade 30-50 tnotes a clip, which is more than enough leverage to pull in 10k + a day. Afterwards your taxed 60/40 cap gains/ordinary income which saves a ton over tax burden you would be experiencing in a prop firm.

 

[EricP]

Quote from Don Bright:

Current Short Stock Interest Rate is 5% from Goldman.

As far as all the derogatory statements go, I guess I'll just smile and assume that there will always be anonymous critics espousing their views, regardless of the facts involved. After all, correcting erroneous statements made by ET'ers 7 years ago was how I first came to post here. Over the years I have never seen any other Firm be nearly as open and transparent as I have tried to be here on the board or elsewhere.

Sounds like an excellent rate for short balances. Thanks for answering my question.

In terms of 'derogatory statements', I'll just point out that my long posting history on ET will reflect that I'm not a Bright Trading 'hater'. To the contrary, I think that it is one of the better prop firms in the business (although I'm not an expert on the prop offerings out there). This is why it always hits a nerve on me when you post intentionally misleading and incorrect statements (such as "we pay interest on short balances, retail do not"). These not only mislead ET readers but, I believe, do a disservice to Bright Trading.

Next time, please state "we pay interest on short balances, while many/most retail do not", and I'll be a happy camper. Otherwise, I'll continue to post a correction for the benefit of the ET community, some of whom may be unaware of the offerings of retail firms. Seems like now, I'm the one having to "correct erroneous statements made by ET'ers" (i.e. you). Oh well, life goes on.

P.S. Still confused... You knew that statement was misleading/incorrect. A large share of those reading your post knew it was incorrect. Why did you post it? I can't believe it was just an unintentional oversight, as you've done the identical thing before. It just doesn't make sense... Whatever...

 

[NYEquityTrader]

The advantages are huge going from Retail to Prop. I trade with Arima Capital in ny, I get 20:1 leverage BP and use their Annvil software. I couldn't ever imagine using a retail account, it's totally diffrent

 

[piezoe]

Quote from Don Bright:

...

$25K x 4 = $100K, very limiting, not to mention he other Pattern Daytrader restrictions. This is about 2000 shares of a $50.00 stock or 4 lots of 500...how in the heck are you going to make a decent 6 figure income with that? Now, if you have a $million or more to use, then maybe retail is ok for you.

Don

I wanted to second what trdrcbot has said. Trading futures really gets around the need for Prop leverage. 100K is not at all limiting if you trade futures. You can make a very nice living indeed with 100K (a lot less actually)!