Requirements for a Mentor

[123Magic]

Quote from Boib:

So you saying that because he is a successful trader he will be a successful teacher?

More or less. This isn't rocket science.

To use the university analogy again, some of the most prestigious ones have great scholars who teach courses and they may or not may be good teachers (which is subjective anyway), but at the end of the day, the student is ultimately responsible for getting the most out of the course. If the student fails the course, is it the professors fault when others in the same course received an A?

You can take horse to water, but you can't make him drink. More so with trading which dives into the emotions and psyche of the trader.

 

[123Magic]

Quote from Boib:

But Law schools have a proven track record for teaching. Lots of documentation that this or that school turns out successful lawyers.

His methods have a proven track record for success. Teaching those methods doesn't require a Phd. in education.

 

[Boib]

Quote from 123Magic:

More or less. This isn't rocket science.

To use the university analogy again, some of the most prestigious ones have great scholars who teach courses and they may or not may be good teachers (which is subjective anyway), but at the end of the day, the student is ultimately responsible for getting the most out of the course. If the student fails the course, is it the professors fault when others in the same course received an A?

You can take horse to water, but you can't make him drink. More so with trading which dives into the emotions and psyche of the trader.

I agree the student is ultimately responsible.

My experience in wandering through school was that there were good and poor teachers.

I have seen what some would call poor students shine when taugh by a good teacher.

You said it, great scholars may not be good teachers and I would think the same applies to great traders.

That said I think there is a great demand for someone to teach trading. There seems to be lots of options out there but few get good reviews. It would be a tough business. If you had 9 out of 10 students be successful you can bet the 10th would be on the internet badmouthing you.

Best of luck in your endeavor.

 

[hughb]

I would prefer a mentor simply write a book and I will read it at my leisure. The "mentor" will be paid hansomely by his lit agent/publisher and I will only have to pay the price of the book. Lit agents and publishers will hopefully vet the "mentor" to protect their own reputations against a fraudster. When Nicolas Darvas was interviewed by Time magazine he was so thoroughly investigated it unnerved him. And BTW, Nicolas Darvas, whom I've never met, was my best mentor ever. I wish I had listened to him sooner.

I must admit though, it would be much easier just to find a few naive individuals and mentor them for a few thousand bucks each.

 

[JimmyJam]

Quote from 123Magic:

His methods have a proven track record for success. Teaching those methods doesn't require a Phd. in education.

Provided his professional ethics are a little bit better than that coven of vendors you mentioned, he might have a shot at actually succeeding in the vendor game.

Although considering their track record, I'm not sure why he would actually want to sell his system if it actually works.

Good trading,

Jimmy Jam

P.S. - Despite Almihty1's (yet again) pompous comments, he's actually a rabid follower of Mark Cook (who is a vendor BTW), and who's Cummulative Tick Indicator has been very wrong recently ... but Almighty1 has "figured-out" a way to improve it LOL, (that's what all students say once they've spent their money with a veondor whose system can't cut it).

So take all that wind with a grain of salt ...

 

[whitster]

despite what the op says...

there is PLENTY of demand for mentors. i've had no problem whatsoever finding clients.

i trade index futures. estimates are that about 90% of traders lose money trading them. that means (necessarily - since futures are zero sum), that 10% of traders MAKE the money that the other 90% lose.

the potential for profit is immense.

most traders will pay lots of money for a whiz bang computer system, and continue to pay lots of money to "mr. market" while thinking that sooner or later they will "figure it out.".

most won't (which is good - they provide lots of liquidity for winning traders) because they do not do the right things to make money - and that's what a mentor can teach you - BEFORE you lose tons of money trying to reinvent the wheel.

trading is many things, but it is not rocket science. it really is not complex, but it is not EASY to execute.

also, many here seem to think that a mentor needs experience trading SIZE to be a successful trader. that's rubbish.

also, teaching itself is an art. i don't care how good a trader you are. it does not follow that you will be a good TEACHER - ie mentor.

you need somebody who knows HOW to trade, and MORE IMPORTANTLY knows how to teach it to others.

as for what is a reasonable price? for an internet mentorship (over the net vs. in person), anything less than $700 a week is a steal imo. for in person, anything less than $700 a day imo

that's just my opinion of course.

maybe there are good mentors out there charging far less.

 

[mschey]

Quote from 123Magic:

More or less. This isn't rocket science.

To use the university analogy again, some of the most prestigious ones have great scholars who teach courses and they may or not may be good teachers (which is subjective anyway), but at the end of the day, the student is ultimately responsible for getting the most out of the course. If the student fails the course, is it the professors fault when others in the same course received an A?

You can take horse to water, but you can't make him drink. More so with trading which dives into the emotions and psyche of the trader.

First off, size does make a difference, being a successful 5 lot trader does not imply you can trade 50 lots successfully, it's not just about risk and account size, there are psychological issues to deal with. There are also market factors, not all markets will allow one to trade 50 lots easily.

Second, just because one is a good trader does not in any way mean they can be a good teacher, coach, or mentor. What makes a good trader, the personality traits, often conflict with those traits that make one a good teacher.

Good traders tend to be slightly introverted, above average intelligence, and very competitive, we want things now, and don't have patience for BS, stupid questions, tiresome debate.

Teaching requires one to be patient, understanding, and more extroverted.

Through out history, the best coaches have always been good players, if not great players, prior to becoming a coach. If you are not a good trader, you have no business trying to teach and coach others!

If you are a new trader, looking to learn the ropes, keep that in mind.

 

[NihabaAshi]

Quote from 123Magic:

Knowing that ET has a tough crowd, I though I'd ask what you would require or want to see from a professional trader who would offer services as a teacher/mentor to train others how to trade on a one to one basis. Also, what do you think would be a fair fee for those services? Frankly, I'm not sure there is much of a demand for this type of service.

This is a serious inquiry, not for me, but one of my patients who wants to wind down from the world of day trading. He only trades the ES.

Thanks in advance for your serious comments.

This post answers your questions about mentor/student relationship, fair fee et cetera.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32793&perpage=1&pagenumber=7

Mark

 

[johnpinochet]

Quote from hughb:

I would prefer a mentor simply write a book and I will read it at my leisure. The "mentor" will be paid hansomely by his lit agent/publisher and I will only have to pay the price of the book. Lit agents and publishers will hopefully vet the "mentor" to protect their own reputations against a fraudster. When Nicolas Darvas was interviewed by Time magazine he was so thoroughly investigated it unnerved him. And BTW, Nicolas Darvas, whom I've never met, was my best mentor ever. I wish I had listened to him sooner.

I must admit though, it would be much easier just to find a few naive individuals and mentor them for a few thousand bucks each.

I don't think you've ever tried to publish a book. Paid handsomely? Do a little research on what a first time author makes on his first book.

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from mschey:
First off,

Second,

You are right in both points, but so what? If he is only a 5 lot (but successfull) trader AND a bad teacher, just by simply explaining what he is doing one could learn a lot from him, I assume...