REPUBLICANS YANK OBAMACARE REPEAL BILL

This is incompetence on scale that is hard to believe.
I think Trump and his agenda are DOA.

I always used to says there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between an establishment Republican and an establishment Democrat. Well I was wrong. The Democrats never would have done this to their president.

Someone hands you a lemon...make lemonade. Take what you can and live to fight another day.

Tax reform next? Really? My God these people are delusional.

I will be doing everything I can to see Dave Brat is defeated...even if it means voting for a Democrat.
 
This is incompetence on scale that is hard to believe.
I think Trump and his agenda are DOA.

I always used to says there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between an establishment Republican and an establishment Democrat. Well I was wrong. The Democrats never would have done this to their president.

Someone hands you a lemon...make lemonade. Take what you can and live to fight another day.

Tax reform next? Really? My God these people are delusional.

I will be doing everything I can to see Dave Brat is defeated...even if it means voting for a Democrat.


I agree that its gross incompetence on Ryans part, cant see how he would be dumb enough to just assume everyone was going to go along with his shitty bill, but you are making waaaaaaaaay to much of this as is the market, Tax Reform and DeRegulation will be a no brainer for conservatives, they all agree it has to happen, its just an argument about degree. Healthcare is a delicate issue with many differing view points, that dems hardly passed with a supermajority. Give it time, dont panick.

This turd Ryan has offered up will pass the house within 2 weeks, unfortunately this is the best the idiots in the republican party could come up with to replace obamacare, but its still a hell of alot better, this one will pass the house no doubt about it, but it might get hung in the senate, hopefully they dont sell us out like dems and refuse to force insurance monopolies to compete across state lines.

 
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I am confused by your comment about Brat.

Trump's campaign promises are being turned into establishment crap by Ryan and the establishment republicans.

Dave Brat was a leader against that piece of crap bill. I read that Ryan is running ads against him.

Brat and the those who refused to vote for it are the good guys for tax payers.
In essence he has given Trump a chance to not be destroyed by Ryan/obamacare.

Can you imagine 2 years from now when premiums went up... what that would do to Trump and the republicans? Ryancare was guaranteed to elect more democrats. Maybe destroy Trumps chance of reelection.

And I guarantee you that destruction was by design Ryan and the establishments design.

Trump needs to use his power to get good bills through congress. Not establishment crap.

Obama got his party destroyed by supporting Obamacare instead of single payer.

Trump and republicans almost made the same mistake supporting Obamacare lite.

the only people supporting establishment republicans bills are the whores on congress.

Trump better get wise about the tax reform bills too. otherwise more useless or worse establishment crap is going to get passed and he will have no chance of re election. Not only will he lose to a democrat he might not make it past rand paul. Trump base is not dumb. He got elected because we despise establishment politicians and their politics. Trump is not looking like he gets it right now.

Ryan and the establishment are not good for him or the base.

This is incompetence on scale that is hard to believe.
I think Trump and his agenda are DOA.

I always used to says there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between an establishment Republican and an establishment Democrat. Well I was wrong. The Democrats never would have done this to their president.

Someone hands you a lemon...make lemonade. Take what you can and live to fight another day.

Tax reform next? Really? My God these people are delusional.

I will be doing everything I can to see Dave Brat is defeated...even if it means voting for a Democrat.
 
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I'm in Brats district. My comments would apply equally to all the other no votes.

Like I said, get what you can get and move on. Much of what is wrong with Obamacare can be handled administratively, at least for a while. The bill gave wide latitude to the Sec of Health in how it was implemented.

No one on either side believed this was going to repealed in it's entirety and replaced with a completely new bill. No matter how it's done, it has to be done incrementally.

The bigger issue here was giving Trump, and the Republicans, a major black eye. To the average voter, they both look incompetent.
 
I agree with Pad that the Republicans will have an easier time passing tax 'reform'. They can administratively apply the wrecking ball to the agencies and slash taxes, a hundred bucks more for me, a hundred thousand bucks more for you. They should be able to get tax cuts through both houses.

Ideologically, cutting taxes and borrowing the lost revenue fits establishment Republicans as slime fits a fish. The Democrat's version, of course, is tax and spend. Both parties rely on inflating debt away, to the extent they can. The Republicans preference for tax cuts hasn't changed since the Clinton administration. Clinton wanted to spend budget surpluses on paying down debt, bolstering increasing Medicare costs, and making up for Congress's failure to adhere to the Social Security Trustees' recommendations. The Republicans wanted to use the surplus to cut taxes. When Bush the Younger inherited a 128 billion surplus from the Clinton 2000-2001 tax year budgets, he blew the entire surplus and more on cutting taxes. He had both houses, as Trump does now, and announced a 1.35 Trillion cut in taxes through 2010. We know how well that worked out! History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. And it is going to rhyme again soon.

It's the 'Freedom' Honkies*, of course, that won't go for borrowing. They do have their inviolable principles. Borrowing for aircraft carriers, tanks, fighters, and more hydrogen bombs to bolster our stockpile of 6000 nuclear war heads only makes sense in their world of raping Muzzies.** "We'll get a Peace Dividend 'Bigly!,' and Dick Cheney will get a Martin Marietta dividend 'Bigly'. It will be win-win and "Déjà Vu all over again," all at the same time! The prescience of Cheney's lobbying for 50% lower tax rates on dividends during George the Younger's reign will become clear. What a genius the man was!*** Once we've collected on the peace dividend we'll have no further use for the State Department. Mr. Tillerson can sell off the office furnishings on Ebay and add the proceeds to the burgeoning Treasury surplus that will be created by eliminating government.

Fortunately for the Republican establishment, the 'Freedom' Honkies won't know how much has to be borrowed until 2017 revenues roll in --"Oops. Looks like the wealthy didn't create enough jobs; must have spent too much time in St. Moritz."-- The tax cut Bill will have long since been passed on the promise that virtually eliminating the State Department and paring down other government agencies would produce massive savings -- 'Don't you worry Honey, America's going to be 'Great Again,' just like it was when Reagan tore down that Wall."

It remains to be seen whether there are enough establishment Republicans objecting to the Honkies wrecking ball to the point that the vote on the tax cut bill might be, to paraphrase Mr. Trump, 'close.' However, because tax cuts are, next to stamping out government entirely, the Honkies' raison d'être, can any sane person doubt that a massive tax cut bill won't slide through Congress like a Metamucil lubricated turd. The Democrats will be in the bleachers, observing the circus on the field and whining.

The 'Freedom' Honkies want nothing left but dust, rubble and lots of military hardware. Their hope is that it would take decades of Democrat majorities in both houses to rebuild anything more elaborate than a government port-a-potty. (With the ascension of Honky Gorsuch, they will have quite likely secured at least 30 more years of Corporate Rule.)

McConnell and his band of Obama slanderers may look like blithering idiots after they found that some people actually prefer Obamacare to what they had before, even though it is a 'disaster,' but they can still win the next battle. If the 'Freedom' Honkies will permit the bizarre Trump administration to swing that wrecking ball ever so slowly, so slowly that the carnage is not evident until well after November 2018, but the tax cuts are arranged to take hold in Jan 2018, the Honkie era of the American Republic can last past the mid-term elections. This will require the cunning of a Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, Tip O'Neil, Sam Rayborn, Everitt Dirksen, Robert Byrd, Sam Irwin, and the like. Our Tyro, Paul Ryan, should not listen to the equally inexperienced Mr. Trump, or his alt right, white nationalist courtiers. Instead Ryan should avail himself of the advice of those who know how to slime and be loved for it. If Ryan does this, he and the tax-cutting-at-any-cost Republicans may still be able to welcome 2019 in tall cotton.

_______________________________
*This word, "Honky", is not chosen with out thought. If you don't know its origin, please look it up.

** The irony here is that although these 'Freedom' Honkies abhor the very idea of socialism, they champion our thoroughly socialist armed services and the VA. One can understand a qualified, well thought out, objection to socialism, but theirs is seldom qualified, nor is there an indication that they have thought through the consequences and inconsistencies of their ideology.

***I have many favorite Dick Cheney quotes, one of which is, I'm sure, the shortest quote on record of any one who ever lived, namely, "So." But my absolute favorite Cheney quote is "We have to make America the best place in the world to do business."
This seemingly captures the essence of the man. And I note, and not without both some displeasure and trepidation, that our good President Trump could have just as easily muttered those same words. Have we elected a proxy for Dick Cheney? God help us, if we have.
 
No, Bill Clinton Didn’t Balance the Budget
By Stephen Moore
October 8, 1998
Let us establish one point definitively: Bill Clinton didn’t balance the budget. Yes, he was there when it happened. But the record shows that was about the extent of his contribution.

Many in the media have flubbed this story. The New York Times on October 1st said, “Clinton balances the budget.” Others have praised George Bush. Political analyst Bill Schneider declared on CNN that Bush is one of “the real heroes” for his willingness to raise taxes — and never mind read my lips. (Once upon a time, lying was something that was considered wrong in Washington, but under the last two presidents our standards have dropped.) In any case, crediting George Bush for the end of the deficit requires some nifty logical somersaults, since the deficit hit its Mount Everest peak of $290 billion in St. George’s last year in office.

And 1993 — the year of the giant Clinton tax hike — was not the turning point in the deficit wars, either. In fact, in 1995, two years after that tax hike, the budget baseline submitted by the president’s own Office of Management and Budget and the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office predicted $200 billion deficits for as far as the eye could see. The figure shows the Clinton deficit baseline. What changed this bleak outlook?

Newt Gingrich and company — for all their faults — have received virtually no credit for balancing the budget. Yet today’s surplus is, in part, a byproduct of the GOP’s single-minded crusade to end 30 years of red ink. Arguably, Gingrich’s finest hour as Speaker came in March 1995 when he rallied the entire Republican House caucus behind the idea of eliminating the deficit within seven years.



We have a balanced budget today that is mostly a result of 1) an exceptionally strong economy that is creating gobs of new tax revenues and 2) a shrinking military budget. Social spending is still soaring and now costs more than $1 trillion.

Skeptics said it could not be done in seven years. The GOP did it in four.

more at link...

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-bill-clinton-didnt-balance-budget
 
Seems pretty partisan to stack all of America's problems on republicans. The Problem with America is that the minority has too much power, In Canada i may not agree with Trudeau, or the liberals, so i dont want to see their agenda, but atleast with 1 party in control most of the time, you see it shift one way or the other, i.e. Conservatives come in and cut taxes and cut spending, or Liberals come in and increase spending and taxes, and the pendulum swings back and forth, the reason why the U.S. is becoming totally dysfunctional is because people in the minority have way to much power. The only way to get anything done is to throw out freebies for everyone, so no one can possibly say no.


But when it comes to taxes and spending, the way i see it playing out, dems want more spending repubs want less taxes, so we will more than likely end up with more spending and less taxes, and blow another gigantic hole in the deficit, because that is the only way to get shit done, the only way you get through fillibusters, and other stupid fucking rules is by appeasing everyone, everyone gets to have their cake and eat it too, this is precisely the reason why none of the cowards on either side will touch entitlements or the military because it would require a bargain that is unpopular to both sides, so instead we will just keep upping the spending on everything. this will be stimulative for the economy till we have to pay the piper one day, seems that day is coming closer and closer.......

Regulations are easy most of that Trump can do through regulatory bodies.

Pretty disingenous to lay this all at the feet of republicans everyone knows congress is the ones who draw up all the spending and tax bills, so to lay it all at the feet of Bush is a total crock of shit, he was an idiot no doubt about it, but self serving politicians from both sides own this mess. Note the fact that debt goes up just as much in split congress as democrat controlled congress.

US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP.tif


I agree with Pad that the Republicans will have an easier time passing tax 'reform'. They can administratively apply the wrecking ball to the agencies and slash taxes, a hundred bucks more for me, a hundred thousand bucks more for you. They should be able to get tax cuts through both houses.

Ideologically, cutting taxes and borrowing the lost revenue fits establishment Republicans as slime fits a fish. The Democrat's version, of course, is tax and spend. Both parties rely on inflating debt away, to the extent they can. The Republicans preference for tax cuts hasn't changed since the Clinton administration. Clinton wanted to spend budget surpluses on paying down debt, bolstering increasing Medicare costs, and making up for Congress's failure to adhere to the Social Security Trustees' recommendations. The Republicans wanted to use the surplus to cut taxes. When Bush the Younger inherited a 128 billion surplus from the Clinton 2000-2001 tax year budgets, he blew the entire surplus and more on cutting taxes. He had both houses, as Trump does now, and announced a 1.35 Trillion cut in taxes through 2010. We know how well that worked out! History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. And it is going to rhyme again soon.

It's the 'Freedom' Honkies*, of course, that won't go for borrowing. They do have their inviolable principles. Borrowing for aircraft carriers, tanks, fighters, and more hydrogen bombs to bolster our stockpile of 6000 nuclear war heads only makes sense in their world of raping Muzzies.** "We'll get a Peace Dividend 'Bigly!,' and Dick Cheney will get a Martin Marietta dividend 'Bigly'. It will be win-win and "Déjà Vu all over again," all at the same time! The prescience of Cheney's lobbying for 50% lower tax rates on dividends during George the Younger's reign will become clear. What a genius the man was!*** Once we've collected on the peace dividend we'll have no further use for the State Department. Mr. Tillerson can sell off the office furnishings on Ebay and add the proceeds to the burgeoning Treasury surplus that will be created by eliminating government.

Fortunately for the Republican establishment, the 'Freedom' Honkies won't know how much has to be borrowed until 2017 revenues roll in --"Oops. Looks like the wealthy didn't create enough jobs; must have spent too much time in St. Moritz."-- The tax cut Bill will have long since been passed on the promise that virtually eliminating the State Department and paring down other government agencies would produce massive savings -- 'Don't you worry Honey, America's going to be 'Great Again,' just like it was when Reagan tore down that Wall."

It remains to be seen whether there are enough establishment Republicans objecting to the Honkies wrecking ball to the point that the vote on the tax cut bill might be, to paraphrase Mr. Trump, 'close.' However, because tax cuts are, next to stamping out government entirely, the Honkies' raison d'être, can any sane person doubt that a massive tax cut bill won't slide through Congress like a Metamucil lubricated turd. The Democrats will be in the bleachers, observing the circus on the field and whining.

The 'Freedom' Honkies want nothing left but dust, rubble and lots of military hardware. Their hope is that it would take decades of Democrat majorities in both houses to rebuild anything more elaborate than a government port-a-potty. (With the ascension of Honky Gorsuch, they will have quite likely secured at least 30 more years of Corporate Rule.)

McConnell and his band of Obama slanderers may look like blithering idiots after they found that some people actually prefer Obamacare to what they had before, even though it is a 'disaster,' but they can still win the next battle. If the 'Freedom' Honkies will permit the bizarre Trump administration to swing that wrecking ball ever so slowly, so slowly that the carnage is not evident until well after November 2018, but the tax cuts are arranged to take hold in Jan 2018, the Honkie era of the American Republic can last past the mid-term elections. This will require the cunning of a Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, Tip O'Neil, Sam Rayborn, Everitt Dirksen, Robert Byrd, Sam Irwin, and the like. Our Tyro, Paul Ryan, should not listen to the equally inexperienced Mr. Trump, or his alt right, white nationalist courtiers. Instead Ryan should avail himself of the advice of those who know how to slime and be loved for it. If Ryan does this, he and the tax-cutting-at-any-cost Republicans may still be able to welcome 2019 in tall cotton.

_______________________________
*This word, "Honky", is not chosen with out thought. If you don't know its origin, please look it up.

** The irony here is that although these 'Freedom' Honkies abhor the very idea of socialism, they champion our thoroughly socialist armed services and the VA. One can understand a qualified, well thought out, objection to socialism, but theirs is seldom qualified, nor is there an indication that they have thought through the consequences and inconsistencies of their ideology.

***I have many favorite Dick Cheney quotes, one of which is, I'm sure, the shortest quote on record of any one who ever lived, namely, "So." But my absolute favorite Cheney quote is "We have to make America the best place in the world to do business."
This seemingly captures the essence of the man. And I note, and not without both some displeasure and trepidation, that our good President Trump could have just as easily muttered those same words. Have we elected a proxy for Dick Cheney? God help us, if we have.
 
No, Bill Clinton Didn’t Balance the Budget
By Stephen Moore
October 8, 1998
Let us establish one point definitively: Bill Clinton didn’t balance the budget. Yes, he was there when it happened. But the record shows that was about the extent of his contribution.

Many in the media have flubbed this story. The New York Times on October 1st said, “Clinton balances the budget.” Others have praised George Bush. Political analyst Bill Schneider declared on CNN that Bush is one of “the real heroes” for his willingness to raise taxes — and never mind read my lips. (Once upon a time, lying was something that was considered wrong in Washington, but under the last two presidents our standards have dropped.) In any case, crediting George Bush for the end of the deficit requires some nifty logical somersaults, since the deficit hit its Mount Everest peak of $290 billion in St. George’s last year in office.

And 1993 — the year of the giant Clinton tax hike — was not the turning point in the deficit wars, either. In fact, in 1995, two years after that tax hike, the budget baseline submitted by the president’s own Office of Management and Budget and the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office predicted $200 billion deficits for as far as the eye could see. The figure shows the Clinton deficit baseline. What changed this bleak outlook?

Newt Gingrich and company — for all their faults — have received virtually no credit for balancing the budget. Yet today’s surplus is, in part, a byproduct of the GOP’s single-minded crusade to end 30 years of red ink. Arguably, Gingrich’s finest hour as Speaker came in March 1995 when he rallied the entire Republican House caucus behind the idea of eliminating the deficit within seven years.



We have a balanced budget today that is mostly a result of 1) an exceptionally strong economy that is creating gobs of new tax revenues and 2) a shrinking military budget. Social spending is still soaring and now costs more than $1 trillion.

Skeptics said it could not be done in seven years. The GOP did it in four.

more at link...

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-bill-clinton-didnt-balance-budget


A balanced budget and surpluses only came under a democrat president who raised taxes.

Obama and Clinton left office with smaller deficits than they came into office with.

Reagan,Bush1 and Bush 2 left office with higher deficits than they came into office with and its almost certain Trump will leave office with a much higher deficit than it is now.
 
A balanced budget and surpluses only came under a democrat president who raised taxes.

Obama and Clinton left office with smaller deficits than they came into office with.

Reagan,Bush1 and Bush 2 left office with higher deficits than they came into office with and its almost certain Trump will leave office with a much higher deficit than it is now.


LOL, yeah Obama was a fiscal hawk, only added more debt than any president in history, he made Bush look like a piker, the deficit only exploded when Dems took large majorities in both the senate and the house, bush was a big spending moron, no doubt about it, but so was Obama.

But hey if you want to keep telling yourself that conservatives are the ones who are the big spenders, here is a heat map of the U.S. (Note the states with the most debt)

1_rss.png


Here is a map of canada, note the provinces with the most debt. (Hint) Saskatchewan and Alberta are the 2 most conservative provinces in Canada, Ontario, Quebec, B.C. very liberal.

recent-development-in-the-canadian-economy-21-638.jpg


You really do have to be delusional to think that the party whose goal is cutting government somehow spends more money than the party who thinks government cures all ills.
 
LOL, yeah Obama was a fiscal hawk, only added more debt than any president in history,

He also came into office with the biggest deficit in history,the worst economy since the great depression and most of his debt is from wars,tax cuts and unpaid for medicare expansion he didn't start.
 
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