Republicans/Libertarians - dead wrong on education

[pattersb]

Quote from Pabst:

Milwaukee has the most comprehensive voucher system in the nation.

Student's who've elected to attend Parochial schools have seen robust, long term improvement in test scores. Not to mention that the expenditure per student by Catholic schools in Milwaukee is about half of the amount wasted by public schools.


http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_11.htm



A recent study of students in the Milwaukee choice program seriously questions these criticisms. The study, performed by researchers at Harvard University and the University of Houston, [1] found that students in Milwaukee's voucher program outperformed their public school counterparts. [2]

The Harvard/University of Houston study found children in the Milwaukee voucher program for 3 years or more do better on reading and math achievement tests than similar students not in the program. [3]

Reading scores of voucher students in the third year of the program were 3.13 percentile points higher than their peers in the Milwaukee Public Schools system and 4.81 points higher in the fourth year. [4]

Math scores for voucher students on average were 4.98 percentile points higher in the third year and 11.59 points higher in the fourth year. [5]

The study's authors explain the 3 to 4 year lag by suggesting that students need a period of adjustment to a new educational environment. [6]

http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/article/465

Good Call Pabst.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/011/961ttgjb.asp

(The guy who basically started the movement ... the link fades in and out ... Michael Joyce)

The studies I've read must have been sonspered by the teachers union. (Or outdated) You think a wolf backed into a corner will act vicious, just try to take on the teacher's union.

I think these types of programs are the only thing that can improve the education of "troubled" spots. Public schools are almost entirely run by radical leftists in these areas ...
(By assumption ...)

 

[nononsense]

Quote from pattersb:


The intention of school vouchers is to provide families who are serious about an education for their kids a means to escape such systems.

You forgot to mention that under the voucher system, the school should have the absolute right to send away that segment of the students requiring metal detectors and police intervention.

 

[pattersb]

... and the members of the black community are nearly universally in favor of the voucher system. Except of course, those with ties to the public school systems.

 

[jeafl]

I have taught at several Christian academies here in Florida, both non-profit and for-profit. You couldn’t pay me to put a kid in such a school. Florida has a taxpayer supported scholarship program for anyone who has spent at least a year in public school and has been labeled as learning disabled. The scholarship is based on the amount of money the local public school system would appropriate for the student- the greater the “disability” the greater the scholarship. So there is no rich kid advantage.

There’s no education either. Christian schools here generally use old textbooks (ACE, A Beka and Bob Jones are the favorites- all inaccurate, too easy and often out of date even when new). These schools generally do not have libraries, which doesn’t matter because few of the students can actually read- much less read at the grade level appropriate for their age. If they offer a math course like Algebra II, it is not until grade 12 (when that course is grade 8 or 9 in public schools). Homework on Wednesday is forbidden in all Christian schools and some Christian schools forbid homework period. At my last teaching job students could not take school books home with them and I was given 2 sets of class textbooks to teach science for grades 7-12.

Christian schools here are simply babysitting services for students with ADD, which means adults didn’t discipline. I use to support vouchers, but I don't anymore.

 

[nononsense]

Quote from jeafl:

I have taught at several [] academies here in Florida, both non-profit and for-profit.

I use[d] to support vouchers, but I don't anymore.

Of course jeafl, a voucher system would feel rather awkward for a guy like you.

 

[spect8or]

Public, private, blah blah blah.

The quality of the 'school' (what, buildings? textbooks? teachers?) isnt' remotely as important as the quality of the students.

Some kids are essentially unteachable. It would take a superhuman effort - such that not one in a thousand teachers could muster - to impart the finer points of algebra to a 75IQ dimwit.

'Urban' school populations conist to a very large degree of precisely such unteachables. Any discussion of school performance that neglects or dismisses this most important consideration isn't worth the effort of discussing. Until America admits this is the case, it's going to keep bumbling along in the dark while, because of ongoing mass third-world immigration, the problems continue to mount. Count on it.

In this sense, all mainstream educationists, both left and right, are 'dead wrong on education'.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from spect8or:

Public, private, blah blah blah.

The quality of the 'school' (what, buildings? textbooks? teachers?) isnt' remotely as important as the quality of the students.

Some kids are essentially unteachable. It would take a superhuman effort - such that not one in a thousand teachers could muster - to impart the finer points of algebra to a 75IQ dimwit.

'Urban' school populations conist to a very large degree of precisely such unteachables. Any discussion of school performance that neglects or dismisses this most important consideration isn't worth the effort of discussing. Until America admits this is the case, it's going to keep bumbling along in the dark while, because of ongoing mass third-world immigration, the problems continue to mount. Count on it.

In this sense, all mainstream educationists, both left and right, are 'dead wrong on education'.

Completely agree, with one caveat. I think the problem is with the parents. If the parents don't do their job, there is no way the kids are going to learn. Our society puts too little value on learning and too much value on playing. Yes, a good football play can make millions. But when was the last time you heard a rape committed by a spellingbee champion?

 

[Arnie]

That's great news! Now maybe the libs will shut about how we don't spend enough on education. After all, some of those private schools are VERY expensive.

 

[spect8or]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

I think the problem is with the parents. If the parents don't do their job, there is no way the kids are going to learn.

Parenting is very important, I agree. Unfortunately, it does still come down to a person's inherent potential, too.

dddooo will have a fit when he sees me introducing this point into yet another thread, but damn it, doo, it's important: Poor white children routinely outperform black children from well to do households. This baffles liberals, but the reason is that whites simply have more inherent potential.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from spect8or:

The quality of the 'school' (what, buildings? textbooks? teachers?) isnt' remotely as important as the quality of the students.

The research compares apples to apples i.e. good students in public schools to good students in private schools etc. While it goes without saying that a good motivated student will do just fine even if he/she is home-schooled, it has nothing to do with this thread which is discussisng whether private schools provide any more educational benefits than comparable public schools.