Republican Presidential Debate Showcased Impressive Candidates

[achilles28]

Ron Paul cleaned up.

The only candidate who addressed the REAL ISSUES.

The establishment candidates wore a shit-eating grin while Paul promised the dismantling of the IRS and slammed the Feds criminal wealth money creation system (via inflation).

 

[jem]

Quote from Cache Landing:

First of all, I'm not saying that mormon belief regarding God and Christ isn't different than other christian sects. There are very distinct differences which ultimately lead to my belief of mormon doctrine rather than others that I've studied.

But, when you say that mormon teachings of God and Jesus are different than others' beliefs you should specify which other christian sect they are being compared to. Indeed the idea of who God is and his actual relation to Christ are still being reinterpreted and heavily debated today.

You refer to the Nicean Creed. The very fact that Constantine (who might not have even been a believer himself) had to assemble the Council of Nicea is evidence of the fact that less than 300 years after Christ's death there was so much debate on this topic that Constantine feared disruption of his empire.

Yes, mormon doctrine on the nature of God is entirely different than this creed, but you should understand that it is a matter of interpretation. The Bible declares God and Jesus to be seperate individuals more often than it declares them to be "One". Indeed they are referred to in a very similar fashion in the Book of Mormon.

Mormons do not claim the Book of Mormon to be true and the Bible to be false. Indeed the 8th of the 13 articles of faith states;
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,106-1-2-1,FF.html

Obviously if mormons believe in the same bible (King James Version is the standard for the church) it must relate back to a translation or interpretation difference. Other churches teach their followers that the Book of Mormon teaches a different God than the Bible, and those followers believe this without ever reading it. Ironically mormons are the ones criticised for blind faith.

This is a debate that has hundreds of cites on the internet.

It comes down to this - do you recognize that Christian's have a right to define their core teachings.

If you do then you can not claim that these teachings are consistent with Christian teachings of the Trinity.
-------------------------

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":

"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."
-------------


Mormon teachings about the divinity of Jesus are also significantly different from Christian chruches teaching.

Now you can play word games - but the bottom line is that the core beliefs are very different.

by the way I have some very good friends that are jack mormons.

Finally, if you acknowledge that Mormonism teaches that man can become Gods, then you must realize that is the same teaching that the serpent tempted eve with and it caused the seperation of Man from God. By eating form the tree the devil told eve she would become as God and surely not die.



The exact lie that

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from jem:

This is a debate that has hundreds of cites on the internet.

It comes down to this - do you recognize that Christian's have a right to define their core teachings.

If you do then you can not claim that these teachings are consistent with Christian teachings of the Trinity.
-------------------------

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":

"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."
-------------


Mormon teachings about the divinity of Jesus are also significantly different from Christian chruches teaching.

Now you can play word games - but the bottom line is that the core beliefs are very different.

by the way I have some very good friends that are jack mormons.

Finally, if you acknowledge that Mormonism teaches that man can become Gods, then you must realize that is the same teaching that the serpent tempted eve with and it caused the seperation of Man from God. By eating form the tree the devil told eve she would become as God and surely not die.



The exact lie that

I'm not playing word games at all. I said straight up that Mormons don't accept the teachings of the trinity as defined by the creeds. There are many various translations of the bible. Each sect believes differently otherwise they would all be the same church. Instead they all debate heavily these very topics.

On the topic of God having a body and our ability to become like god..

Genesis 1:26-27 - we were created in the image or likeness of God.

Romans 8: 16-17 - the spirit bears witness that we are the children of God. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.

John 5:19 - the Son does nothing of himself, but that which he sees the Father do. Whatever the Father does the Son does likewise.

Other Christians acknowledge that Christ (though once mortal) is a joint heir with god, having been glorified after resurrection. He appeared to the apostles as a glorified being after his death and resurrection. IOW, he has become a heir with God. Yet the idea that God is also a glorified being is thoughtlessly rejected as being absurd.

Moses states that we were created in gods image. Paul claims that we can be joint heirs with Christ. Christ claims to be following the example of the Father.

An objective reader of the bible would not think that the Mormon teachings are outlandish. I'll say it again; Mormons are criticized for being blind followers of their church leaders. It seems to me to be the other way around.

 

[Jayford]

Quote from vhehn:

You have to seriously question the intellect of someone like Romney if he is not able to realize that mormanism is a fraud in light of all the evidence we have that Joseph Smith made it all up.Do we really want another president who would put faith ahead of evidence?

As opposed to what religion that actually has some evidence?

Jesus walked on water? Sure he did.
The guy wasn't even deified until 300 years after his death. The church powers at the time knew it would help their case to turn him from a prophet to the "Son of God".

Gimmie a break!

All religion is based on hearsay from people that most likely made everything up. There were hundreds of prophets at the time of Jesus BTW. He was just the most successful one. If he wasn't a threat to Roman power, you probably never would have heard of the guy. Crucifixion made the guy one heck of a martyr!

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from Jayford:

As opposed to what religion that actually has some evidence?

I would refer you to a section of the Book of Mormon (about 75 B.C.) where a man named Korihor is making similar statements to you when debating with a believer in Christ.


And thus ye lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers, and according to your own desires; and ye keep them down, even as it were in bondage...

[and the prophets] have brought them to believe, by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their visions and their pretended mysteries, that they should, if they did not do according to their words, offend some unknown being, who they say is God—a being who never has been seen or known, who never was nor ever will be.

And then Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.

The prophet Alma replies;

Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.

Jesus walked on water? Sure he did.
The guy wasn't even deified until 300 years after his death. The church powers at the time knew it would help their case to turn him from a prophet to the "Son of God".

Gimmie a break!

All religion is based on hearsay from people that most likely made everything up. There were hundreds of prophets at the time of Jesus BTW. He was just the most successful one. If he wasn't a threat to Roman power, you probably never would have heard of the guy. Crucifixion made the guy one heck of a martyr!

Jesus was deified in scripture long before his birth and extensively thereafter during his mortal ministry.

In the Bible

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given....and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God...

Luke 1:30-32
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest

In the Book of Mormon (~600 B.C.)

1 Nephi 11:12-21
12 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look! And I looked as if to look upon him, and I saw him not; for he had gone from before my presence.
13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?
15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.
16 And he said unto me: Knowest thou the condescension of God?
17 And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.
18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.
19 And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!


But as to your assessments of the political candidates, we think pretty similarly.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from Cache Landing:

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given....and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God...

Luke 1:30-32
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest

In the Book of Mormon (~600 B.C.)

1 Nephi 11:12-21
12 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look! And I looked as if to look upon him, and I saw him not; for he had gone from before my presence.
13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?
15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.
16 And he said unto me: Knowest thou the condescension of God?
17 And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.
18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.
19 And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!

Amazing what whacked-out fables the believers are willing to believe in.

Sorry to tell you this, but the bible is just a book, buddy. It's all myth. It was written when people thought ghosts and goblins were real.

'God' doesn't exist. Sorry. You'll have to sublimate your fear of death in some other manner.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Jayford:

As opposed to what religion that actually has some evidence?

Jesus walked on water? Sure he did.
The guy wasn't even deified until 300 years after his death. The church powers at the time knew it would help their case to turn him from a prophet to the "Son of God".

Gimmie a break!

All religion is based on hearsay from people that most likely made everything up. There were hundreds of prophets at the time of Jesus BTW. He was just the most successful one. If he wasn't a threat to Roman power, you probably never would have heard of the guy. Crucifixion made the guy one heck of a martyr!

I know that but at least with the christian religions we are so far removed from the time of the actual happenings that little evidence is left but with the morman scam we are close enough to the event that there is good evidence to prove its a scam.