Republican obsession against immigration

[FortuneTeller]

It wasn't so long ago, and at that time anyone who made the trip over was considered legal.

The elephant in the room is that underlying this point isn't legal versus illegal, it's white versus brown, it's European versus Latinos. Trump, the architect of our racist framework, welcomed white western immigration; he railed against Latino or Asian immigrants.

Trump wondered why more Whites were not being let into the country, that's all. I believe he mentioned Norway. How is this racist? How many immigrants from Norway were let into the US compared to the illegal immigrants from Mexico? Why do the Democrats only want immigrants from Mexico? How about we reverse the ratio? Let millions in from Norway and just thousands in from Mexico?

I'm sure that Trump didn't like the illegal immigration because it was illegal. He never said he was against legal immigration. No Republican ever has.

And how many Asian immigrants are there compared to illegal immigrants from Mexico? I would think that Asians are not for illegal immigration if it keeps them from getting into the US legally.

 

[VicBee]

Trump wondered why more Whites were not being let into the country, that's all. I believe he mentioned Norway. How is this racist? How many immigrants from Norway were let into the US compared to the illegal immigrants from Mexico? Why do the Democrats only want immigrants from Mexico? How about we reverse the ratio? Let millions in from Norway and just thousands in from Mexico?

I'm sure that Trump didn't like the illegal immigration because it was illegal. He never said he was against legal immigration. No Republican ever has.

And how many Asian immigrants are there compared to illegal immigrants from Mexico? I would think that Asians are not for illegal immigration if it keeps them from getting into the US legally.

Saying Trump preference for white Norwegian immigrants over brown Latino immigrants is not racist shows your racism.

Agreed that illegal immigration should be stopped, but rather than building physical walls and spewing racist rants, there are more efficient ways of doing it. The first, is to make the immigration process clear, simple, inexpensive and accessible to much larger numbers of immigrants from Central and South America. Today it takes upwards of 15 years to get the coveted visa. The process shouldn't take more than a couple of years.
The US should apply a more assertive carrot and stick relations with the countries whose most immigrants to the US come from. El Salvador and others have horrendous human rights violation records, gangs are armed to the teeth with weapons they acquire in the US, their economy benefits a few hundred families at the expense of millions who live in poverty. If the US spent as much time reforming these countries as they did on Ukraine, the flow of illegal immigrants would trickle to near nothing

 

[Mercor]

Saying Trump preference for white Norwegian immigrants over brown Latino immigrants is not racist shows your racism.

Agreed that illegal immigration should be stopped, but rather than building physical walls and spewing racist rants, there are more efficient ways of doing it. The first, is to make the immigration process clear, simple, inexpensive and accessible to much larger numbers of immigrants from Central and South America. Today it takes upwards of 15 years to get the coveted visa. The process shouldn't take more than a couple of years.
The US should apply a more assertive carrot and stick relations with the countries whose most immigrants to the US come from. El Salvador and others have horrendous human rights violation records, gangs are armed to the teeth with weapons they acquire in the US, their economy benefits a few hundred families at the expense of millions who live in poverty. If the US spent as much time reforming these countries as they did on Ukraine, the flow of illegal immigrants would trickle to near nothing

There are South Asians and Africans who have a more difficult time walking into the USA
Easily 500 million would choose to come over The system in the USA that has devolved into a system of economic asylum
Africans see the lighter skin people able to walk across the USA border, they as darker skin people cant....This is the type of racism they are used to, where the lighter skin people have most of the political power in countries of color

 

[Mercor]

It wasn't so long ago, and at that time anyone who made the trip over was considered legal.

The elephant in the room is that underlying this point isn't legal versus illegal, it's white versus brown, it's European versus Latinos. Trump, the architect of our racist framework, welcomed white western immigration; he railed against Latino or Asian immigrants.

Its not a white issue. Problem is that whites are a small minority in the world, 11% of the world is white, 89% are people of color
There are few white immigrants period.
Take away USA, Europe , whites are lees then 5% of the worlds population

 

[VicBee]

There are South Asians and Africans who have a more difficult time walking into the USA
Easily 500 million would choose to come over The system in the USA that has devolved into a system of economic asylum
Africans see the lighter skin people able to walk across the USA border, they as darker skin people cant....This is the type of racism they are used to, where the lighter skin people have most of the political power in countries of color

Yes, that's true. But South Asian and Africans are less of an American concern than Central and South Americans, because they are within America's sphere of influence. We get easily flustered when 3rd parties try to influence that zone, and thus it becomes the US's responsibility to act in its greater interest of making illegal immigration unnecessary.

 

[UsualName]

I'm glad to have opened this discussion which, I hope, will remain civil.

I wanted to show that the US is far from being the country with the highest immigration per capita, legal or not. As was pointed out, the US has a high proportion of illegal immigration. Some like to emphasize that it's illegal, essentially blaming the immigrants, while in Europe they are more honest by calling them refugees, even if that immigration is froth with abuse.

I believe very few who feel safe and have work opportunities want to leave their country of origin. This was the case for our forefathers and it's also the case for those coming to America today, legally or not.
I'm not a proponent of illegal immigration, but I strongly believe in the freedom of movement. The reason so many cross the border illegally is because the path to legal immigration is so convoluted -sometimes in excess of 15 years and major expenses to get a visa- that most only see closed doors and are willing to risk everything, including their lives, to make it to America.

I'm aware of the push towards a point system, similar to the Australian immigration process. They evaluate their labor shortage and encourage that specific type of immigrants, usually skilled blue collar labor.
I'm not a proponent of that system, primarily because America has demonstrated over and over that great accomplishments can be achieved from immigrants who started with nothing more than their will to succeed. In my opinion, pre selection is elitist, drains developing countries of their skilled labor and won't stem the influx of people fleeing violence and/or poverty in their country.

On the other hand, the US could do far more by applying carrot and stick to countries known for their violence towards their population. We could do much more to prevent weapons from falling in gang hands, or stimulate local economies by providing easier access to the US market. Increase in national wealth will decrease the level of illegal immigration.

In America illegal immigration often gets convoluted with drug and violent crime and that is the main cause of why the issue does not get resolved. Republicans like to paint all illegal immigrants with a broad brush by accusing them of being a danger to the country. Democrats often defend the majority of hard working illegal immigrants who do not engage in drug and violent crime.

And that is the problem, we are arguing over whether the minority of illegal immigrants defines the majority and with so much time spent on defining and pushing back on that narrative no substantive work gets done on the actual issue of illegal immigration.

 

[UsualName]

you may as well be talking apples and oranges if all "whitey" had to do was sneak into the country to get citizenship back in the day.

One of my great grandfathers came to America as a merchant marine and never got back on the ship to return home. Kind of just stayed, no one bothered him, and even fought in world war II AS AN AMERICAN.

 

[Mercor]

In America illegal immigration often gets convoluted with drug and violent crime and that is the main cause of why the issue does not get resolved. Republicans like to paint all illegal immigrants with a broad brush by accusing them of being a danger to the country. Democrats often defend the majority of hard working illegal immigrants who do not engage in drug and violent crime.

And that is the problem, we are arguing over whether the minority of illegal immigrants defines the majority and with so much time spent on defining and pushing back on that narrative no substantive work gets done on the actual issue of illegal immigration.

To Republicans its about having a process not about who is arriving or the numbers.
Being able to enter the USA is our great asset and we should have some say in who we invite, why settle for just who shows up at the border
For example.
In rural and inner cities areas there is a shortage of doctors and nurses. We should have a program to invite 50000 doctors and nurses to come to America and set up a practice in a small town for five years and then get citizecship

 

[Snarkhund]

One of my great grandfathers came to America as a merchant marine and never got back on the ship to return home. Kind of just stayed, no one bothered him, and even fought in world war II AS AN AMERICAN.

Anyone is this country not of native American ancestry is here because someone immigrated. I'm descended from a man who came over so long ago there was no "system" at all. He just took a boat ride, no applications no nothing. He managed to acquire a horse and simply rode into the interior of the country and built a homestead in some unclaimed wilderness.

These days he would be an illegal immigrant squatting on some corporation's land and probably be deported or put in jail.

 

[VicBee]

To Republicans its about having a process not about who is arriving or the numbers.
Being able to enter the USA is our great asset and we should have some say in who we invite, why settle for just who shows up at the border
For example.
In rural and inner cities areas there is a shortage of doctors and nurses. We should have a program to invite 50000 doctors and nurses to come to America and set up a practice in a small town for five years and then get citizecship

I support your statement that for Republicans it's the process. I would simply qualify it with a "for a unclear percentage of Republicans" because within the Republican party lives white nationalists, Klan members, neo nazis and other racists who helped elect Trump as president. I used to think these couldn't represent more than 10% of the party, but after Trump, I think they represent more than 35%.

It's not easy to invite 50000 doctors and nurses, because the world is competing for them. Furthermore, those foreign doctors and nurses may not be recognized by the AMA and thus wouldn't be able to practice here.
What has made America great isn't Trump and his cohort of racists, it is it's open door policy, of taking in those persecuted in their home countries, those unable to be the best they can be because of various discriminations. Those were the people who founded the nation and it came out alright.

As I've written before, Republicans don't like brown people not because of their skin color, but because once established in America they generally vote Democratic because they escaped right wing dictatorships. Republicans love Cubans and Venezuelans because they vote Republican because they escaped left wing dictatorships.