republican budget director. we need major tax increases not decreases

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Gabfly1:

The Right's favorite bromide: supply-side, trickle down economics. You understand, of course, that the Right believes tax cuts pay for themselves when, in fact, they do not. Even bubbleboy Greenspan himself admitted that tax cuts don't pay for themselves. The tax cuts during the Bush administration disproportionately favored the rich. Remember, not just in absolute terms, but in (dis)proportion.

first of all, quoting greenspan on ANYTHING related to economics is not a good choice of a source. the man is clueless. yes, i said it.

however, i do believe that tax cuts work when properly applied and i also agree that tax cuts should have been passed - AS LONG AS SPENDING CUTS ACCOMPANIED THEM. to cut taxes and not cut spending is plain stupid. to pass tax cuts WITH a bill to expand unemployment benefits is beyond stupid. its fucking asinine.


apparently, no one in office was listening on November 2nd.

 

[bugscoe]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

however, i do believe that tax cuts work when properly applied and i also agree that tax cuts should have been passed - AS LONG AS SPENDING CUTS ACCOMPANIED THEM. to cut taxes and not cut spending is plain stupid. to pass tax cuts WITH a bill to expand unemployment benefits is beyond stupid. its fucking asinine.

apparently, no one in office was listening on November 2nd.

Indeed.

This whole tax debate is retarded because of all the cherry picking of information that gets done to frame the debate.

Cut taxes, cut spending. If my income goes up because I get to keep more of my paycheck and I also cut my personal monthly expenses, I have a more money left at the end of the month. Imagine that!

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

first of all, quoting greenspan on ANYTHING related to economics is not a good choice of a source. the man is clueless. yes, i said it...

I am no fan of Greenspan either, and have criticized him repeatedly. The only reason I mentioned Greenspan is because he is an ardent Ayn Rander. For a guy like that to admit that tax cuts don't pay for themselves, is really saying something. Tax cuts do not pay for themselves. That, in turn, means that supply-side, trickle-down "economics" is a farce.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

oh really?

let me tell you a bit about my recent history. i'll try to be as exact as possible without giving away personal information.

i am married, have one child. he will be three in march. i am turning 40 next year. i worked for a large pharma/cpg company up until march of 2008, where i left to take another position with what i thought to be a great company in a position that was a promotion. my son was just born - in fact i accepted the offer call when my wife had just given birth and i was still in the hospital.

we had also, 9 months prior, purchased a house in northern nj for about $675,000, but no worried. we put a good portion down and though the mortgage was expensive, we could afford it and i had a good job.

after being with this company two months, i realized i had made a mistake. my boss was screwing the company for all it was worth and i was being pushed in the direction to change numbers. rather than sign to the 10-k statements saying i approved what i knew to be false numbers, i resigned at the end of september of 08. in october, the market fell out and everything went south. my investments were hammered and the country officially went into recession. all hiring stopped (especially in my field) as companies waited to see if the end of the world would truly come.

i freaked out. i had a newborn, a large house and a payment to make. i had 26 weeks of unemployment, the amount the government was giving me didnt cover the mortgage. i had savings, but not a massive amount. probably could last me a year. rather than sit on my tuffet, i hit the streets hard. used up all my contacts, but couldn't find anything. two months later, i got a call from a recruiter in my network and asked me about a job, but the relo policy was lacking. they wouldnt do the house buyout (which was typical in my position and level).

i accepted. in the end i took over one hundred thousand dollars in equity loss, not to mention the expenses in the process, because i knew this was a right change. it was really tough to accept.

but i bettered my position in the end, downsized my house to a townhouse, and we live happily ever after. but i busted my ass and took substantial financial losses to get where i had to in order to get a job.

so please, take your assumptions of what i am and what i know and stick 'em where the maple syrup flows, gabby. i am fiscally responsible enough to be a master of my own destiny, and i ACCEPT the losses that come from my decisions. the government does not have to bail me out, because i bust my ass. not to mention the schooling i had to pay for out of my pocket to get to where i am today. no one helped me.

Great post!! Sadly, you're in the minority is the US. As Stockman alluded to -- we've had a 20-30 year "party" and the day of reckoning is not far away. Many in the US have chosen to live well beyond their means. They feel they're entitled to it. They don't want to have to make tough choices and downsize, cut back on expenses, buy a less expensive car, etc. And then they moan and groan they're being foreclosed on. But lawyers will tell them to quit paying the mortgage and they'll get another 12-15 months in their house as "squatters" -- no payments yet they have a place to stay.

I'm in my 50's and my parents in their 80's. They, through living during part of the depression, learned about sacrifice and buying what you could afford. I learned from them. Buy what you can afford. All this ranting that we were near a 2nd depression recently is garbage -- people sure didn't act like it and now are resuming their spending as their savings starts to drop again. When there are no consequences there is little motivation to change. The government spends more than it takes in and people emulate that behavior.

Not only do we need tax increases but we need spending cuts as well. Start with a gas tax, say 25 cents. Eventually all these SUV and F250 truck people will see that driving their gas guzzlers isn't so cost effective and they'll buy a car that they can afford after taking fuel costs into account. Government employees, at all levels, need to work more than 20-25 years before they can qualify for retirement. The list goes on and on on ways to cut costs.

Glad you had the backbone to make a hard (and costly $$) decision that will be in your best interests long term.

 

[Tsing Tao]

gabfly,

i try to have my own opinion. i try to do my own research and learn on my own and make my own judgment based on the info i get. i dont like quoting folks all that much, especially "prominent experts" like greenspan. i dont like him at all, even if he says something that supports what i believe in because the guy is a fool. a fool who led to the greatest bubble in the history of mankind (though bernanke is trying to trump that).

therefore, i could care less what he says or who he supports. he's a fraud.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from DHOHHI:


Glad you had the backbone to make a hard (and costly $$) decision that will be in your best interests long term.

thank you for the compliment. it was not an easy decision. i make a good six figure salary (close to 200k) but i drive an old jeep wrangler (paid for in 2002) and my wife drives a nice saturn i bought in cash in 2008. we live in a townhouse that is one third the size of our previous big house, and one fourth the mortgage payment, less taxes, and much lower utility bills. we are comfortable. i could go out tomorrow and buy some zippy 100k sports car. but why on earth would i?

what angers me is that everywhere i read about the fiscally irresponsible getting away with it. bailouts. no one gives me shit.

 

[chartman]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

no, if you haven't checked shadowstats yet, you should. the UR is more like 18%.

Or More!!

This is the worst economy since the Great Depression. It sure is not the right time to increase taxes or eliminate unemployment benefits to millions of families who are unemployed for reasons beyond their control. Both of the these recent decisions by the government will increase the deficit but in a recession, the government is the last the resort for spending to boost the economy. The private sector, both consumers and businesses, are not going to increase spending. The deficit reduction committee might as well bury their report. It will not see the light of day until the economy improves and then no one will care.

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

gabfly,

i try to have my own opinion. i try to do my own research and learn on my own and make my own judgment based on the info i get...

Groovy. Based on your own research, have you been able to identify any point in time when tax cuts have, in fact, paid for themselves? Please be sure to not overlook the liability side of the balance sheet in connection with any point of reference you may wish to raise.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

because you went off on the assumption that i didnt know what i was talking about, and i resent that assumption.

i feel for the underprivileged. really. being in consumer products, i see the articles first hand and the stats about food stamps. i read the stories about the single mother with two kids who runs out of food two days before the last day of the month, and as a result she and her two children go hungry. the article goes on to detail how the mom tries to make a game of it and they count down the hours until the money is deposited on their card so they can go get the food they need to make it another month. my heart weeps at such detail.

then i read the story of the couple in LA who cheers when benefits are extended because they're living rent free (the bank is backlogged and cannot foreclose) and this means the husband can go out and get that ipad he wanted. they're both unemployed, collect food stamps (the SNAP program) and they spend most of the day watching tv together. they even comment about how it's made their marriage tighter.

and i pay for it? fuck that.

Another good post! I volunteer (when not trading) at a school that's 99% on free/reduced lunch with that same percent under poverty level. You feel for those people as some really try.

Then I had to deal with a next door neighbor. Bought the house for $640K, put another $260K into it remodeling. Retired Air Force working a job in management. In his early 60's with $900K housing debt. He gets laid off from job and quits paying mortgage. The typical "strategic" foreclosure. He and his wife stayed in the house 15 months after they quit paying. Then -- get this -- they go and rent a house that was on the market earlier this year at $1.625 million. He also walked away from credit card debt (thanks to public records all this is verifiable). So I don't feel sorry for this worthless trash who has continued to live "large".

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from chartman:

...This is the worst economy since the Great Depression. It sure is not the right time to increase taxes...

Really? Are the millionaires hurting that badly? The poor dears.

I think Obama should have proposed a $1 million cut off point rather than the $250k level, at least until the economy stabilizes, after which time the $250 level should be revisited. Then there would be even less justification for all the brouhaha from the Right.