Quote from Scientist:
ChartingMarkets - You sound very experienced, yet don't seem to have the experience to be more open to other possibilities, rather than imposing your harsh opinion on day traders!
You take 4-6 points for your swing trades? Well, in what timeframe? And, do you risk overnight exposure? To make you realize why people day trade, it's not to get "half pregnant", but to maximize profit potential. Swing trading is an easy game. Every decent day trader started off that way. As you get better, you can move onto smaller and smaller (ergo more difficult) timeframes. As you trade smaller timeframes, you get to use more money velocity, more leverage, less timerisk, less per-trade risk etc etc. Comments like "half pregnant" I would replace at this point with "double pregnant", or "quadruple pregnant". Admitted, day trading is the "hardest", but it's not without rewards if done properly. Talking about "ebb and flow", you think that only exists in swing trading? Give me a break! It exists in any timeframe you choose to trade. The market is like a fractal encapsulation, one smaller fractal within the other, and even you couldn't tell if a chart is 1m, 5m, 15m, 60m, or a daily (except for the gaps maybe).
Is it exhausting, and will I burn out? Well, it can be exhausting, particularly if you're losing or not knowing what you're doing. Yes, day trading, particularly scalping, can take its toll. But you know it's extremely rewarding, and I'll probably very gracefully retire before I turn 30. And then I can still move onto swing trading and the like. Until then, I can actually sleep at night, without fear of horrible gaps or overnight exposure. But of course I fully agree with Jai as to having a plan. That's the A and O of it all. The most important thing.
Regarding backtesting with systems: I have neither TradeStation nor WealtLab anymore, and I don't develop or test any mech systems, for I (just personally) consider this a waste of time. I do all my backtesting of my discretionary approaches by-hand, drawing on charts (often printed!) and in Excel spreadsheets specially for the purpose.
I print out the 1-min and 5-min bar chart of my market every day and fill in all the trades, missed opportunities, and improvement comments. I have a detailed digital log archive, with diaries, comments, everyday observations, every day execution logs and every day charts. It works for me, beautifully. I still improve every single day.
FYI, I often do over 100 RT/day, and I net more than any swing trader can do. I do well enough to be satisfied. Thank you for your considerations.
Have a great week.
Scientist, you really do need to learn how to read posts properly before you answer them.
Point 1, you wanted to know if I take 4-6 points and in what time frame. I used the term "for arguements sake" in the original post. What that means is for "example". I take all different amounts of absolute points depending on the security I am trading. For example/"arguements sake", on a stock such as CIEN I would not be looking for 4-6 points I might be looking for 80 cents with 20 cents risk. MMM I may be looking for 10 points with 3 points risk. You get it? Thats what for arguments sake means its meant to cover a broad range possibilities by using an EXAMPLE! Also of course I hold overnights. I hold stocks 1-10 trading days or until targets are reached. I trade off the daily charts while using the 15 min and 60 min to refine entry with a tactical view and the weekly I use as a strategic view.
Pont 2, you said swing trading is an easy game and daytrading is tougher. I would not classify it as easier as you say but rather more intuitively I would say it is slower and more readable. No different when in the first Matrix moives when NEO finally sees things in slow motion and thus can react "faster" than his opponent. I am sure without measure that I have been trading much longer than you and I have met more people and seen more markets than you have my young friend. My experience is that its the daytraders who end up not making it to the finish line as they burn out.
Point 3, I never once mentioned ebb and flow does not occur on all time frames as you somehow decided to state that I did. Not even once! In fact everybody knows it occurs on all time frames. What I used ebb and flow as an example for in my original post was to point out that scalpers such as yourself are doing so because they feel that they are taking out money from the market all the while with the least amount of risk involved. In the end I can honestly say I am a breakeven daytrader/scalper but a great swing trader. I can also say that I have met many many many traders and almost all of whom have talked about retiring before they were 30 and you know what, they have! They are now retired from trading and working at Mcdonalds. You said you net more than any swing trader ever could. Ok maybe you do maybe you don't. Thats a pretty broad and silly statement to make. Do you net more than me for example? I don't want to make this personal with you Scientist because my original post was not directed at you but I have no problem backing anything I say.
In fact here is my post on ET a couple months back.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24332&perpage=6&pagenumber=10

