Religion is a hypothesis.

[jficquette]

"Actually it's more than pretty stupid to think there has to be a Creator without postulating where the Creator came from. Who or what created the Creator? And who or what created the Creator's Creator? Ad infinitum, ad ridiculo.

"It's turtles all the way down, Dr. Sagan."

ROTFLMAO!!"

You can think where the Creator came from all you want but just the idea of thinking that the Creator had to have a beginning is attempting to put a Human face on science. The same error that Religion commits when it attempts to put a Human face on God.

Time arises out of an expanding universe. Before the expansion there was no Time. The Creator relative to our experience had no beginning. It has always existed because you can't have a beginning before Time existed.

 

[stu]

Quote from jficquette:

"

You can think where the Creator came from all you want but just the idea of thinking that the Creator had to have a beginning is attempting to put a Human face on science. The same error that Religion commits when it attempts to put a Human face on God.

Time arises out of an expanding universe. Before the expansion there was no Time. The Creator relative to our experience had no beginning. It has always existed because you can't have a beginning before Time existed.

So what would that imaginary Creator exist in? A non expanding Universe which existed forever !? You don’t need the Creator.
An expanding Universes exists, so why is it more likely or even necessary at all, for an extra mythical make-believe Creator to exist , rather than simply a different state of Universe ?
Why the urge to concoct an imaginary Creator when one isn't essential?

I'd suggest a Creator that has no time in which to exist , and has no universe to exist in, .....doesn't exist.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Take away time, take away the universe, and the rules of mathematics cease to exist?

The rules of time, and the rules of the universe follow the creation of time and the creation of the universe?

Insanity is what you are smoking...as you think something comes from nothing by way of magic...

Quote from stu:

So what would that imaginary Creator exist in? A non expanding Universe which existed forever !? You don’t need the Creator.
An expanding Universes exists, so why is it more likely or even necessary at all, for an extra mythical make-believe Creator to exist , rather than simply a different state of Universe ?
Why the urge to concoct an imaginary Creator when one isn't essential?

I'd suggest a Creator that has no time in which to exist , and has no universe to exist in, .....doesn't exist.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Take away time, take away the universe, and the rules of mathematics cease to exist?

The rules of time, and the rules of the universe follow the creation of time and the creation of the universe?

Insanity is what you are smoking...as you think something comes from nothing by way of magic...

You say science is creating something (the universe) out of nothing when in fact it is you and your fellow theists who create something (the Creator) out of nothing.

Science says nothing about the state of the universe before the Big Bang. It certainly doesn't say first there was nothing, then there was something. It merely says something apparently exploded. You know, like a bomb. Where the bomb came from or what caused it to go off is still an ongoing investigation. CSI will get back to you later.

 

[Gabfly1]

Quote from Ricter:

I've said it before, but the whole God created the universe in 7 days story is totally unbelievable.

That is, until you consider the alternative story, that the random action of hydrogen atoms over time eventually produced the abomination that is the blue polyester leisure suit.

And the fact that they were available in short sleeves makes it a veritable certainty that there is no god. Case closed.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from Index piker:

You can pretend all you want to, but I know better.
science's version of creation suffers from the line of questioning what precedes the first cause.
Just like the "who created God" conundrum.

No, by not postulating a Creator, science bypasses the conundrum. Not being able to answer on your time schedule (or mine) what caused and/or preceded the Big Bang is hardly the same as producing a "who created the Creator" paradox, which most theisms do.

A nonanswer is not the same as a wrong answer.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from jficquette:

Like with Global Warming LOL

Without getting sidetracked on the merits or demerits of AGW, the history of science is not linear. There are zigs and zags. But over time, progress is made.

I defy you to point to anything concrete in theism that can match the progress made by science and the benefits to humanity.

Go ahead, anything concrete at all.

 

[jficquette]

Quote from stu:

So what would that imaginary Creator exist in? A non expanding Universe which existed forever !? You don’t need the Creator.
An expanding Universes exists, so why is it more likely or even necessary at all, for an extra mythical make-believe Creator to exist , rather than simply a different state of Universe ?
Why the urge to concoct an imaginary Creator when one isn't essential?

I'd suggest a Creator that has no time in which to exist , and has no universe to exist in, .....doesn't exist.

The Creator does not exist in a Universe such as this one. The Creator is not a personality. Where it exists and in what form is as unknowable to us as life in a three dimensional world would be to the two dimension inhabitants of Flatland.

What we see from the Creator is the creative, organizing force that created and orders the Universe. Man gave that force human qualities and called it God.

Again, it illogical to think that all this just happened. Actually, to be frank, it's more superstitious to believe that this universe just magically happened then to think that it was purposefully created by something.

 

[jficquette]

Quote from kut2k2:

Without getting sidetracked on the merits or demerits of AGW, the history of science is not linear. There are zigs and zags. But over time, progress is made.

I defy you to point to anything concrete in theism that can match the progress made by science and the benefits to humanity.

Go ahead, anything concrete at all.

Without a belief in the moral code which comes from Theism you wouldn't even have a civilization.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from jficquette:

The Creator does not exist in a Universe such as this one. The Creator is not a personality. Where it exists and in what form is as unknowable to us as life in a three dimensional world would be to the two dimension inhabitants of Flatland.

What we see from the Creator is the creative, organizing force that created and orders the Universe. Man gave that force human qualities and called it God.

In other words, you make up a fairytale, and because it gives you comfort, we all should just accept it as true.

Quote from jficquette:

Again, it illogical to think that all this just happened. Actually, to be frank, it's more superstitious to believe that this universe just magically happened then to think that it was purposefully created by something.

No it's illogical to make up invisible magical sky fairy sugar daddies to cover up your terror at not knowing exactly what's going on and gone on before in the Big Bad Scary World. In fact, it's downright childish.

There's nothing "magical" about science. Every theory is put forth to explain facts, nothing more than that. The theories aren't made up out of thin air to cover up ignorance when the kid asks unanswerable questions, or to bambozzle ignorant peasants out of their meager savings, or to get laid by gullible temple maidens or altar boys, or any of the rest of theistic bullshit.

A scientific theory that can't take the heat of intense, objective scrutiny by peers with no personal stake in the theory will get mercilessly jettisoned, because no scientific theory is carved in stone, unlike theistic dogma.