Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

[FasterPussycat]

1. If God exists, then he is immutable.
2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe.
3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention.
4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it.
5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything
6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist


DO YOU UNDERSTAND LOGIC??!! IS IT WITHIN YOUR MEAGER ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND LOGIC!! H


LOGIC IS IRREFUTABLE!!! IT IS WHAT IT IS!! EHEHE!

 

[axeman]

Daniel probably could. Im just glad he is on our side

Im trying to stay out of this debate, but alphies post
just got me going because it SOUNDED good but
was actually quite weak. So I just couldnt let it go ;-)

Gonna tag team with Daniel, WWF style.... TAG...your
up daniel! lol (No, I dont watch that crap...hehe )

peace

axeman

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko
i have come to the conclusion that NOBODY here can out debate axeman. he has owned everyone lol

JUST THE FACTS, MAM. JUST THE FACTS.

 

[aphexcoil]

axeman,

This is exactly why, for me, debating the presence and existence of a god is a waste of time. I know that a creator exists due to the experiences in *my* life than have led me to that conclusion.

furthermore, you obviously refute this due to the experiences within *your* life.

Who is right and who is wrong is of no concern to me, since my beliefs suit me as well as your beliefs suit you.

This is the nature of life and this is why it is good to be an individual and free-thinker.

To debate with you on this subject would suggest that I have some need to prove my beliefs to you, but that would merely be an attempt to assert all of my cumulative life experiences overtop yours and forcing you to see something in a light that you, from your present position, are incapable of seeing.

That is not meant as an insult. I am incapable of seeing your viewpoint from my present position.

However, in 100 years, we will both be dead, and any words we exchange on this matter will have no influence or bearing on the "real truth" to existence.

If you are right, lights out -- it was great while it lasted.

If I am right, I'll see you on the flip-side.

 

[marketsurfer]

axe,

you have definately stimulated some thinking on my part--thanks ! however, beyond the logic, do you believe that man simply ceases to exist after death ?? OR do you have the balls to admit that you do not know what happens after death ??

best,

surf

 

[marketsurfer]

nice aphie. NO amount of logic can refute one's personal experience. perhaps you should of said, i'll see you on the DARK side.......

best,

surf

 

[axeman]

Great to hear. I love getting peoples mind gears going

To get to your question....

Does you dog cease to exist after death?
How about an ant?
How about a bacterium?

Do we have ANY reason to believe this is true?
Do we have ANY evidence that this is the case?
Nope.
Nope.


Is it possible? Sure it is.
Is there a rational reason to believe this is the case?
Nope.

Do I know what happens after death?
No.

Do I have any clue at all?
No.

Have I seen any reason to believe in anyones
claims of life/something after death?

No.


I have never seen any evidence that suggests a
person can exist outside of his physical body.
I have seen that once a brain stops functioning, because of
death or any other reason, the person I once knew
no longer interracts with me or resembles that person.

I can assume nothing beyond my observation that
when a person dies, there is nothing.

Is there life after death?
The only rational answer is, I DONT KNOW.


That is one of the big differences between an intellectually
honest person, like me, and most theists.

I DONT KNOW is a VERY valid answer in my belief system.
It is the only rational answer.

peace

axeman

Originally posted by marketsurfer
axe,

you have definately stimulated some thinking on my part--thanks ! however, beyond the logic, do you believe that man simply ceases to exist after death ?? OR do you have the balls to admit that you do not know what happens after death ??

best,

surf

 

[aphexcoil]

axeman ,

Thanks. I read your post with the expectations that you would prove or disprove life after death, but you have merely left us back at the original question plus a few kilobytes on a hard-drive to boot.

aphie

 

[axeman]

The same is true for god.

The default rational stance on god is, I dont know.
There is no evidence, so therefore I cant believe it.
This does not mean its impossible.
But it IS irrational to believe in a god without evidence.

HOWEVER, if you give me a very specific definition of god,
I can usually find a logical contradiction with the definition
and then take the stance that THAT god cant exist.
The strong atheist position. By default, I take the weak
atheist position until a definition is given.

peace


axeman

Originally posted by aphexcoil
axeman ,

Thanks. I read your post with the expectations that you would prove or disprove life after death, but you have merely left us back at the original question plus a few kilobytes on a hard-drive to boot.

aphie

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by marketsurfer
...do you believe that man simply ceases to exist after death ?? OR do you have the balls to admit that you do not know what happens after death ??

the ONLY thing we can compare death to is BEFORE BIRTH. we have ALL already experienced what it was like to be not alive. if you want to know what being not alive is like, just ask yourself:

"WHAT WAS MY LIFE LIKE 10,000 YEARS AGO?"

IT WAS NOTHING!!! DEATH = BACK TO NOTHINGNESS.

religious people just don't want to accept this answer because they want more. they don't like the answer.

HOWEVER, i can admit, i do not know FOR SURE. but nobody else here does either. this would just be my bet.

 

[axeman]

A study of basic statistics will quickly refute that claim.
Personal experience can be horribly misleading, especially
after you look at the big picture.

Look at how supersitions are formed. These are based
on false correlations which are made during a
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

A drug may not work for you, but it works for 80%
of the other people. Does that mean the drug doesnt
work? Nope.


You take a bunch of recreational drugs. You see , hear, and experience
many things. Are they real?
Nope.


Once again.... relying on personal experience can be
very misleading.

peace

axeman

Originally posted by marketsurfer
nice aphie. NO amount of logic can refute one's personal experience. perhaps you should of said, i'll see you on the DARK side.......

best,

surf