Originally posted by aphexcoil
There was the old classic "Watch" argument that stated, "If you saw a watch, would you not say that there was some intelligent designer to piece together all the gears?" Well, the same could apply to the universe.
That arguement has been torn to shreds.
You may want to read up on it.
That line of thought also introduces the infinite god problem.
Suppose you were strolling through the universe and
came across a GOD. Wow, you thought to yourself, this
GOD is really complex! This GOD must have had a designer...
and so on...and so on.
There is also the Anthropic Principle that states that the design of this universe is such that it could not have happened by chance.
Says who?
Maybe it didnt happen by chance, that still doesnt mean
a god created it. Did God happen by chance? Same problem.
Maybe the universe simply always existed and no god
is required to explain it.
Then you can look at the encoding of DNA information and determine that, by mere chance, it would take a time-period vastly larger than the universe has been around to formulate and encode just the simple enzymes within the human body.
A boldly empty assertion and complete guess. Bzzzzzt!
If you understood the process of evolution, you would
not be implying that things as complex as DNA simply
pop into existence via mere chance.
But im not going to argue evolution here.
I will simply point out that you are completely guessing
and have no evidence to support such a claim.
There is a ton of evidence that suggests design. Just look at your own hand and move your fingers around. A lot of people will take the evolution ideas but then you have to understand that evolution has to have some source or creator
Another bold and completely empty assertion.
I have seen NO evidence that suggests design.
Where is your proof?
Ever read The Blind Watchmaker?? The guy wrote
a very simple computer program that simulated evolution
and random mutations. Complex creatures popped
out of this system and it did not require a creator, just
random mutations. So we know complexity is very
possible without having to fabricate gods.
-- and then you run into all sorts of problems with the law of thermodynamics and how systems are getting more complex when they should be breaking down.
This arguement has been shredded too...go do some reading.
In the time periods we exist in, a system can be getting cooler
overall and have plenty of hot spots that COULD easily
support many generations of life.
There are books on my bookshelf with symbols that I interpret with meaning -- there is just so much design all around us and its constantly evolving into deeper levels.
Your confusing REAL design, AKA from a human, and
what you see as natural in the universe.
You havent proven, in any way, that what you see
had been designed. In fact , there is evidence to the
contrary. There are many known systems in the human
body which are ASS backwards.
The human eye for example. The nerves which extend from
the light sensitive cells are actually wired IN FRONT
of those cells.
A FIRST year engineering student could have come up
with a better design than this. Yet some god of incredible
intelligence made such a stupid and obvious error.
There are many many examples of this. There are evolutionary
explainations for such errors, but it goes directly against
the notion of there being an intelligent designer.
Much greater minds than I have tackled these issues and they still didn't get us anywhere. I don't think anyone will ever be able to prove or disprove the existence of a God because that proof would exist in a logic-set outside our sub-set of logic (the set of logic we can comprehend). The super-set of logic would probably baffle us -- just as quantum effects baffle us. (Photon EPR paradox, quantum tunneling, many-worlds theory).
Yet another completely empty and bold assertion.
It is also circular reasoning.
You are claiming a set of logic exists that we cant
comprehend, to support your claims, which you havent
proven to exist.
Can you prove this other logic set exists? Nope.
Could it exist? Sure.... is there any reason to believe
it exists? Nope.
The REALLY cool thing about this universe is that there is no end to the depth of complexity. And the older I get and the more I learn, the more I recognize that "something" is going on -- something I can't explain but must accept by mere faith of observation and anecdotal evidence.
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In other words....your confused and must make stuff
up to make yourself feel better.
Why dont you just take the position of "I DONT KNOW" ?
I dont know where the universe came from.
I dont know if it merely has always existed.
I dont know if it was designed.
Im fine with this.
I also have no rational reason to believe the
assertions you have made and failed to back
up in your post.
I have refuted every point you attempted to make.
Now go back and BACKUP all those assertions you made
with some evidence, or retract them.
peace
axeman
