Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

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Religion is a personal thing. What works for one person (like trading) won't work for the next. If you believe in god, great -- he exists. If you don't believe in god, that's great too -- he doesn't exist.

However, whatever we think and whatever is truth will never be completely in sync with one another. We live in a universe where a lot of information is made unavailable to us simply by our limitations of knowledge and scope of our view of all things that surround us.

I have ventured near heated religious debates and it always comes down to someone trying to "prove" to another person their beliefs.

I often wonder to myself why, if someone feels so strongly about their own views, they are insecure enough to have to feel the need to prove it to others.

If you believe in god or something else, then that is for you to explore, evolve and understand -- you shouldn't dump your ideology on other people.

Think about it like this -- if there is a god, perhaps he has a unique relationship with each of us and it is only for us to understand and accept given all the experiences that have accumulated in our short lives.

To argue "proofs" whether a god exists or does not exist is futile because, given even our most advanced states of logic, all of our tools of debate and empirical science are still a subset of a much larger set that, by the nature of things, is not currently made available to us.

So in closing -- if you believe, great. If you have no problem believing and choose not to believe, that's also great. Whatever works for you and makes you happy -- then swing it.
 
Originally posted by thunderbolt
daniel m,

I'm not God, so that question would be out of my league. I simply except the fact that he is FAR superior than anyone. He has his reasons for everything. How can you say what he does is cruel? Are you on the same intellectual level as GOD? I think not. I've given him the credit and praise he deserves for his glorious creation. So, why then would I--or anyone--question his motives? Your lack of humility prevents you--and others on this board--from having a relationship with the almighty. That relationship would indeed advance your wisdom and knowledge that you so desperately need. JESUS IS LORD!
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Thunderbolt, the following is the 2nd mistake of yours that I've caught since you caught my mistake. Does this invalidate everything you've said (or mumbled to yourself) on this board?

"accept" is what you want. "Except" is a different word, with a different pronunciation, and of course a different spelling!
 
Strongly held feelings are hard to debate.

A simple misunderstanding can cause irrational antagonism that results in a discussion deteriorating into a slanging match. I am sure some don't care and treat the whole thing as a big joke anyway, which at times it is, but through it all, one's own thoughts are provoked or stirred one more time and develop the personality one more step further.

Whether intended or not, the things we hear read or see, make us all what we are and what we will be. One event, be it a personal tragedy or a single catastrophic outrage as the one whose anniversary is tomorrow, make it all seem so much less important. But it's the very talking to each other and trying to understand which is the key to a constructive an meaningful future for mankind.

Things are in some ways so much better today than even a few years ago, despite and in spite of the awful actions of a few deranged extremists. Technology now provides the opportunity to read, talk and learn through forums and other similar facilities to this one and although they may seem on the surface superficial, there is no doubt in my mind that in the long run, all have the chance to be better off for it.

I want to see any debate develop. I want to hear both sides of the argument and be involved. But I want to hear it in a measured way wherever possible. Some remarks attract and deserve angry responses but if that's ALL debate can be, then it's a waste of a potentially valuable resource.

As far as the subject of this thread is concerned it would be good to see ardent religious believers trying to listen for once and understand more the real feelings that non believers hold, instead of continuous and dogmatic rhetorical responses.


One year ago those terrorists lost whatever argument they thought they had by committing a wantonly cruel and despicable act in a futile attempt to make their side of whatever belief or contention they thought they had and as a result, damned themselves into eternity whilst at the same moment in the most unrighteous way, stole lives and deprived families of the loving relatives of so many innocent people.

People treating people badly.
 
stu,

Good post.

When a discussion or debate is reduced to name-calling and pointing out grammatical and spelling mistakes, the thread/debate/discussion has reached the end of its useful lifespan.
 
Originally posted by aphexcoil
stu,

Good post.

When a discussion or debate is reduced to name-calling and pointing out grammatical and spelling mistakes, the thread/debate/discussion has reached the end of its useful lifespan.
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I take it saying "he started it" would sound childish? But seriously, I only returned the favor (of correcting someone's grammar/spelling) because it wasn't relevant when he did it, and because it is funny that he is a hypocrite.
 
Originally posted by daniel_m



Thunderbolt,

Do you realise what the implications of man having free will are?
It means that your God cannot be all-knowing, as you claim he is.
If God is all-knowing, it means he knows exactly what I am going to do next - that is totally incompatible with the concept of free will! If God knows what I'm gonna do in my life, it means I am nothing but a mindless robot. In which case, why does God even bother sending Jesus to save us - he already knows what we are going to do! It means he basically created me, knew I what I would do (reject him) and then throws me into hell for it!

You have totally evaded any of the accusations against your God thus far, but surely even you cannot fail to see that free will and an all-knowing God cannot possibly co-exist!
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Once again, I will point out that I am not religious and am very agnostic. Nonetheless, this common analysis of God and omnipotence is a game of semantics. We are very, very finite beings, with what is ultimately a very limited logic structure and ability to comprehend, and to define and limit (as you did above) God (if a God exists) in the way you did above is misguided. The same goes for the arrogant and ignorant rock argument ("If God can do anything, can he create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it")!
 
Originally posted by FasterPussycat


HA! you have no clue as to what constitutes a logical and valid argument. you are a christian idiot. the world is full of you. all one has to do is turn on the TV.

ps don't forget to send your money in ...god need a new cadillac!! hahahahahaha :-/
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No, he doesn't have a clue. However, he never did say that the victims of 9/11 deserved it.
 
Originally posted by FasterPussycat



rs7 give us your thoughts on this subject, i take it from your occasional comment that you disagree with the the theists here?

whats your official position on this? give us the benefit of your wisdom and insight.
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Faster, after a long pow wow with God himself, I have determined that even though He Himself told me that He was only a figment of my chemically induced imagination (don't EVER take jimsonweed in combo with peyote...) He could have been jiving me. So I still have no real clue.

God exists for those who believe in Him. He doesn't for those who don't. But the bottom line seems that if he does exist, and is benevolent, he will be forgiving of those who don't believe. Or believe the wrong way. And if He is not benevolent, then we are in major trouble. Those that believe in Him are in deep doo doo too, 'cause they have to be messing up somehow. I mean nobody is perfect. And if you worship the wrong way, you are toast. So either billions of Muslims are in trouble, or billions of Hindus, or billions of Christians. They can't all be right. Not to mention the tons of Jews and Buddhists and Sikhs and so on. And don't forget all the minor and even non-scheduled theologies.

God knows I don't have a clue:)

But I know in my house my dog thinks I am God. My wife thinks I am beyond salvation, and my kids think I am the Devil. Each to his own.

:)Rs7
 
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