take out "jesus" and that line would be acceptable.Originally posted by thunderbolt
Gekko, I clicked on your link. Imagine our God, Jesus, created every molecule there is. And I can say that with a large degree of certainty.
Regarding the Existence or Absence of God
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Then you're almost there, Gekko.
that's the thing..i am there.
but some of you people hold on to religion like old shoes. o'reilly included.
By the way breakin, this is a dead end argument. The facts you cite do not lead up to the conclusion you offer. There are many interpretations of scripture and many branches of theology that contradict each other because christianity has many different groups that hold different opinions on certain points. This is no different than differing opinions among groups of lawyers or engineers or molecular biologists- they agree on the big things but frequently differ over the smaller things. The fact that an incorrect opinion was held for a long span of time does not mean the original text enforced that opinion, it means that a misinterpretation of the text lasted for a long time before it was caught and changed. There are many popular misconceptions about the bible that are alive and well today and many common theological viewpoints that are just plain wrong. Christians are essentially united on the macro but frequently divided on the micro just like countless other big groups.
So what does this mean? It means that there are always varying interpretations of a text, and a wrong interpretation reflects more on the incomplete knowledge of the interpreter than on the text itself. Fair rates of interest are essential to capitalism, but no one really understood this early on until capitalism began to take off after the 15th (or 16th?) century inventions of gunpower and the printing press forever broke the back of feudalism.
The early objection to interest rates was based on the false perception that ALL interest rates are unfair, when in reality SOME interest rates are unfair and some are perfectly reasonable. It was a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, as many groups in all walks are prone to do, not necessarily because they are hardheaded, but because their understanding is incomplete. It took a while for doctors to accept the implications of germs. Does this means all doctors were stupid before germs were discovered? No, it just means they had not yet discovered an area where they were uninformed.
There is a vital distinction between surface impression and deeper intent. This is why Christ was so hard on the pharisees. They gave a surface level impression of piousness, when in reality they were self absorbed fakes not interested in piety at all. Regarding interest rates, they were originally frowned upon because the perception was that the practice was exploitational. When they realized that this perception was incorrect, they changed the rule to fit the more enlightened perception. It was never the blind rule itself- it was the perceived intent of exploitation they were against, and this bias was kept even after the rule was redefined. When it was realized 'all interest is bad' was a flawed perception, the rule was modified- but still kept its original intent in terms of discouraging extortion (loansharking) while allowing fair rates of exchange (capitalism) to exist.
Preventing exploitation was the goal, not laying down an arbitrary rule in itself. The definition of usury was modified for the better due to an elevation of knowledge, just as doctor's practices were modified for the better when they understood germs. As Keynes said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do sir?â The intent of the original text still stands. God is patient, He is content to wait while we figure things out.
And Christ did not drive the moneychangers out of the temple "just because they were charging interest." He did it because they were making a place of worship into a place of business. Christianity is not anticapitalist- in fact the protestant reformation is what really kickstarted the engine. But there is a time and place for all things, and some things should obviously be separated. Trying to make a buck in the temple or in church is like trying to sell life insurance at a funeral- grossly inappropriate. It was the money changer's inner attitude of callous opportunism, their lack of respect for God's holy place, that made Jesus angry- Not "infraction b72 of the interest rate code."
If you want to find incorrect opinions held by large groups of Christians, there are many. It is God's design not to give us all the answers easily. He gives us answers, yes, but we must frequently look hard and think hard to get them right. There is a certain benefit of humbleness that comes in getting things wrong and having to start over again. This is why he lets Christians struggle to understand certain things instead of always providing a cheat sheet for the finer points of reality. A man will have a different take on things than he did when he was a boy. Does that mean the boy was wrong? Possibly, but it could also simply mean the boy was less mature and had less understanding at the time.
Ultimately an inaccurate perception of a text is a reflection of the perceiver, not of the text itself. (This is not to say the text cannot ever be wrong- some interpretations of the bible are seriously flawed- it is the original text penned by the original hand that is deemed infallible, not necessarily Pastor Bob's 2002 anniversary translation).
Just like in trading, rules are built around deeper intent- with the intent being far more important than the structure of the rule. It's only natural that popular misconceptions would be discarded when they were realized to be incomplete. Yet all the while the intentions remain the same. We build on our knowledge base. This is why the world is moving closer to God in the long run whether it wants to or not. God did not give us everything on a plate. He gave us enough and required us to use brains and hard work for figuring out the rest. Same as trading. Can a good book on trading help you make money right away? No- not until you apply it in real time and learn to make the connections in your own head. Same thing with scripture. If you look at it once a month and think about it haphazardly, it will give you all the benefits of a trader who looks at his charts haphazardly- there will be more confusion than understanding. To really get it you have to dig and dig consistently, just like in trading. This highlights why so many scriptural attacks (and random walk attacks) are empty shells- if the argument is based on an inconsistency or misinterpretation, then it as a straw man attack against the misinterpretation- and not a true argument against scripture (trading) at all.
uhhh dude, the proof is on you, not me. i'm not the one claiming some guy created the universe. lol you prove it.
There's no such thing! (At least that's what I believe...) And because I've never seen a bright lawyer that means there aren't any. I've got tons of reasons why bright lawyers don't exist, but I won't list them. But because I say I do, that means I do. And even though I haven't really looked for evidence of a lawyer with even remotely reasonable intelligence, the fact that evidence of a lawyer with even one brain cell hasn't dropped into my lap means it don't exist!
Do you know how many dollars have been lost in the name of lawyers? I dare you to show me one smart lawyer! Can't do it, huh? Schmuck!
LOL
oops, i forgot i'm supposed to be Mr. Spock. let me repost in such a way that my substance is so clear there are zero areas for you to blow up with a microscope. wait, i can't do it. guess anyone who wants to listen to me will have to seek out the substance on their own without having it handed to them. bummer...
Just what I expected.
Side stepping of the entire issue.
A common practice among theists.
Yell and rant.... attack people, and make lots
of bold empty assertions, while providing no examples
or evidence, and then sidestep with some excuse
like: "oops, i forgot i'm supposed to be Mr. Spock."
Then says:
"guess anyone who wants to listen to me will have to seek out the substance on their own without having it handed to them. bummer"
Apprently Darkhorse expects his opponents to do HIS
homework FOR him. We should just run out and figure out
how right he is. Thats pretty funny.
The theists have put up zero resistence.
They have failed to respond to my questions,
to the contradictions I pointed out.
No point in debating any further.
I'm putting away my logic whistle, I will get
way too tired blowing it listening to these guys.
Lets get back to trading please.
peace
axeman
Side stepping of the entire issue.
A common practice among theists.
Yell and rant.... attack people, and make lots
of bold empty assertions, while providing no examples
or evidence, and then sidestep with some excuse
like: "oops, i forgot i'm supposed to be Mr. Spock."
Then says:
"guess anyone who wants to listen to me will have to seek out the substance on their own without having it handed to them. bummer"
Apprently Darkhorse expects his opponents to do HIS
homework FOR him. We should just run out and figure out
how right he is. Thats pretty funny.
The theists have put up zero resistence.
They have failed to respond to my questions,
to the contradictions I pointed out.
No point in debating any further.
I'm putting away my logic whistle, I will get
way too tired blowing it listening to these guys.
Lets get back to trading please.
peace
axeman
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