Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

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Originally posted by rs7


Who am I to argue with hundred of millions? I leave that sort of thing to GG and UBL and Lenin and a large handful of others.

Peace,

:)rs7

There's nothing wrong with arguing against the mass. Throughout history the masses have been wrong about many things, both morally and scientifically. It is good to keep an open mind, and in this case as some of us have been saying all along, there is no proof one way or the other. All that we can do is shoot down weak arguments and poor logic by the atheists or the religious (such as Thunderbolt). But referring to the masses is not a good reason to turn back from a disagreement.
 
Originally posted by daniel_m



There is strong circumstantial and psychological evidence regarding how hard it would be, if not impossible, to pull off a fake resurrection where a dozen coconspirators willingly faced martyr deaths as a result.


Perhaps an history of the early Christian church - a factual history - would help you to understand how your religion was able to spread without it being based on fact. (The short answer - political power.) BTW, what exactly IS, I wonder, this strong evidence dark has? I think there is none. (dark, you bullshitting again? naughty boy!)


There is strong evidence in regards to behavior, specifically the way the apostles were bumbling and tripping over their own feet most of the time Christ was with them but then became bold as lions after he rose. You don't get a surge of power and confidence when your leader failed and is in the ground. You get that when you realize He was the real deal and that the grand plan was even bigger than you could have imagined.

Circular reasoning if I've ever seen it. I'd expect better from someone like you dark, i really would. Then again, just like all other christians, you are forced to clutch at ever thinner straws in providing a rational defence for your faith.

Then of course there was the total destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, which Christ prophesied about, which the book of revelation prophesied about, and which was directly prophesied about by OT prophets centuries before that- a linear progression hundreds of years if not a thousand years long that was filled precisely. All that was spoken of came to pass and was, again, documented by outside sources. Carbon date the documents if you want.

Go ahead carbon date them. Are you aware that bible scholars - you know, people who actually KNOW something about it - date the gospels as having been written about 50-150 years AFTER the alleged jesus's death? (Are you aware that NONE of the New Testament characters were actually eye-witnesses of jesus?)



Rude as Danny boy is, these things he wrote occurred to me when I read dark horse's post. More generally, there are plenty of cases, now and in history (the Salem Witch Trials are one of too many to count) where people saw or claimed to see miraculous things that never happened.
 
Originally posted by I Missed Boat


All that we can do is shoot down weak arguments and poor logic by the atheists or the religious (such as Thunderbolt). But referring to the masses is not a good reason to turn back from a disagreement.

I thought I did "shoot down" the ridiculously weak "calendar" argument given by Thunderbolt.

I don't see any reason to argue with the masses if I have no reason to. I thought I made a few points about how I felt about the Bible as not being an accurate documentation of history. I see no reason to argue with peoples beliefs in it. I think their beliefs are a good thing if it helps them to live their lives according to the fine teachings of the Bible.

My personal opinions matter not at all. And I have no incentive to argue them. I will not argue about religion. Only about misstated facts. Or false assumptions in which beliefs are stated as facts.

I would argue "against the masses" if I thought there was either greater value in my arguments, or harm in theirs. I see no harm.

:)Rs7
 
You dont think that believing you are BORN
a sinner is psychologically damaging? :D

You dont think that the practice of accepting
things as fact based on faith can be dangerous to a person?

If not, Ive got some cheap land in florida to sell ya :D

peace

axeman



Originally posted by rs7


I would argue "against the masses" if I thought there was either greater value in my arguments, or harm in theirs. I see no harm.

:)Rs7
 
Originally posted by axeman
You dont think that believing you are BORN
a sinner is psychologically damaging? :D
wow, i know i don't read much of the bible (who would?), but i didn't even know this! is that true!? why would someone be BORN A SINNER?! i can't wait to read what will surely be a RIDICULOUS explanation!
Originally posted by axeman
You dont think that the practice of accepting
things as fact based on faith can be dangerous to a person?
axeman, you always make great points! you are wasting these people!
 
Not all christians believe this GG.
But many do.
The concept of original sin was introduced
in the 3rd century AD if my memory
serves me correctly.

In any case, ive personally met lots of christians
that do believe in original sin and can honestly
say that it causes some of them a lot of grief.

I could tell you about an ex girlfriend of mine who
was really messed up due to all this "sinning" stuff,
but I wont go there...... kinda private.

She had a very hard time enjoying her life.

peace


axeman


Originally posted by Gordon Gekko

wow, i know i don't read much of the bible (who would?), but i didn't even know this! is that true!? why would someone be BORN A SINNER?! i can't wait to read what will surely be a RIDICULOUS explanation!

axeman, you always make great points! you are wasting these people!
 
Originally posted by axeman
You don't think that believing you are BORN
a sinner is psychologically damaging? :D

You don't think that the practice of accepting
things as fact based on faith can be dangerous to a person?

If not, Ive got some cheap land in florida to sell ya :D


I did not know that the concept of "original sin" was part of the Bible. I thought it was part of Catholicism. (don't really know....I don't subscribe to any of it).

Believing things based on faith may or may not be dangerous. Depends on what it is. If one were to believe in the Ten Commandments because of their faith, I would not only see no danger, but I would see a good outcome. Believing in faith that says to kill the infidels; whole different thing.

I could definitely use some cheap land in Florida. My property taxes are absolutely killing me. All so I can live by the beach that I never go to? Sea lice in the summer, jellyfish in the winter. Only time I went in the past few years was to catch a sunrise and once to see that incredible meteor shower last year. Find me some good swamp land, a generator and a satellite dish a rifle with a scope so I can live on gator-burgers (mmmmm), and a way to get my old lady to agree to the move!!:)

I could sell this place and retire. Screw the kids! Let 'em find their own way.

:)RS7
 
You make my point RS7.

How is one who believes on FAITH alone to
determine that killing infidels is wrong?

Faith is blind belief.
If what you believe in says
stone non-believers like the bible, or kill infidels
like the Koran, who do you think followers
are gonna listen to? Their bible/god or mans law?

Bingo.... look at history to see the answer.


Why wouldnt Thunderbolt stone me on sight?


peace

axeman




Originally posted by rs7



Believing things based on faith may or may not be dangerous. Depends on what it is. If one were to believe in the Ten Commandments because of their faith, I would not only see no danger, but I would see a good outcome. Believing in faith that says to kill the infidels; whole different thing.
:)RS7
 
Originally posted by axeman
You dont think that the practice of accepting
things as fact based on faith can be dangerous to a person?
Originally posted by axeman
How is one who believes on FAITH alone to
determine that killing infidels is wrong?

Faith is blind belief.
If what you believe in says
stone non-believers like the bible, or kill infidels
like the Koran, who do you think followers
are gonna listen to? Their bible/god or mans law?

Bingo.... look at history to see the answer.
axeman, you are simply fantastic!!!!!!!

this may cause an uproar, but i say more likely than not, SEPT. 11TH WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF RELIGION DID NOT EXIST.

now, yes, it may have happened for other reasons..but..

why do israel and palestine fight? the root is religion. why does bin laden hate america? mainly because we support israel. why was sept 11 a tragedy? because bin laden and his people hate us.

if there was no religion at all, would this situation have occurred? i say no.

but, i know, religion is such a great thing........
 
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