Regarding the Existence or Absence of God II

all morality and ideas about inalienable rights are derived from religious teachings. Morality makes no sense at all if you believe that you are just an animal. Lions and tigers don't have morality they just eat what they can and defend their offspring and that's it. If that is your idea of morality then I guess we are talking past each other. Inalienable rights make no sense simply in terms of the laws of humans. There is no logic behind inalienable rights, only our belief that we are somehow deserving. There is no scientific proof that we are anything more than animals, so why should we have inalienable rights any more than a dog ? Its just belief.
 
Originally posted by rs7


From what little I know about Christianity, I believe this is probably as good an explanation as can be readily agreed to by virtually all biblical scholars (and I am not one by any means). But as far as I know, Jesus himself never directly claimed to be the son of God. That was inferred by his disciples. And the word spread. Etc.
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So the disciples who walked the earth with Jesus for 3 years are all liars? Yeah, that really makes sense. 12 disciples, one commits suicide, and the other 11 were tortured and died for a lie. Mind you, these disciples were different martyrs than today's suicide bombers, they(the disciples) didn't advocate or demonstrate any violence whosoever. Peter was crucified upside down for a lie. You folks aren't thinking....

BOLT:D
 
Originally posted by MrDinky


You're way off the mark here. It's his consistent insistence that he was the son of God that got him killed by his own people.

:cool:
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Thank you. They have never really researched the topic, yet they try to debate it anyway.
 
Originally posted by stu



it has 'Made in Korea' engraved on the other side


Why do you play down Tunderbolt's proclamations as only strong beliefs. Is there to be no debate on these strong beliefs with which he and others attempt to dominate morality ? They are an unhealthy and compulsive preoccupation with Jesus Inc. They are not just beliefs they are obsessions. He has stated that his ‘belief’ is THE truth , not only that, but that it is the one and only truth. Who knows how far away from “strapping a bomb to himself and blowing up a nearby bus “ that is ?
Continual and persistent demands in the face of any kind of objective rationality is not something to call truth or to encourage.

A Jesus from a virgin birth existed? Or a different type. One with blue eyes? or one with black.

Jesus was not the son of god and didn’t perform miracles.

The only miracles that have ever performed are Smokey Robinson's

There is no eyewitness testimony, archeological evidence nor anything else other than the fictional bible to suggest he may have existed. Someone who presumably was so important would have left a video or DVD at least.

Just how far can this non existent Jesus stray away from objective analysis ?

You would certainly expect to find a mention of Jesus by Flavius Josephus who wrote a history of the Jews, the nearest thing to the historical newspaper (or DVD of the time). In it he remarks and makes reference to everyone he knew about . His ancient writings and studies are accepted by scholars - believers and non believers alike. He wrote extensively on the Jewish rebellion .
He never mentions and wrote nothing at all about Jesus who would have died about 40 years earlier.
In Josephus' time the followers of such a 'god on earth' would have been the concentration of attention.
This complete absence of anything to do with Jesus or his followers was noticed by early christian clerics and they added a description of Jesus into Josephus' manuscripts. Modern day scholars - both believers and non believers - accept the additions as forgery.

Ever since, the religious forgers and deceivers have been adding bits here and there to ensure that the masses will believe. The very need for these religious fraudsters to have to commit such deceitful pretenses speaks volumes about the necessity to be skeptical at least about any religious writings or artifacts. Religion was and always is designed and perpetrated for the appetite of the gullible like Thunderbolt.
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Stu,

I believe with all my heart that Jesus is who he said he was and I've seen his power first hand. Secondly, Jesus in no way ever advocated violence, such as strapping bombs to your body, and for you to say that I "might" do that is absurd since it would contradict everything I stand for--Jesus. My strong belief in the TRUTH is what Jesus said we should stand for. I don't except other faiths since they are not the truth. However, I'm not condemning anyone for anything they do or say. I'm just giving everyone the word and they are responsible for what they do with it. Thirdly, if I were so gullible, then why can't you guys convinced me of your beliefs. Not in a million years. It takes a stronger person to believe and hold strong to the word than it is to fall victim to the world's view on life--evolution, scientology, ect.. I'd say you all are the weaker species...

BOLT :D
 
Originally posted by rs7


Really? Like I said, I am by no means a biblical scholar. But I did believe that there were not biblical references to Jesus actually making the claim. If I am wrong about this, I apologize for speaking out of a misinformed position.

Now saying something like "forgive them father"...that obviously can be taken either that he was speaking as THE son of God literally or, it could be taken to mean that he was one of God's children. Big difference it would seem to me. But did he actually clearly state that he was the direct son of God? If so, then obviously my impression was wrong, and I have no problem admitting to my mistake. Hard to argue facts anyway when the "facts" are by definition fables, myths, and parables. But still...


Peace,
rs7
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Pilate asked, are you the christ(the son of God)? Jesus replied, "it is as you say". The crowd yelled "BLASPHEMY!" "Put him to death". And we all know the rest.
 
Originally posted by thunderbolt


Pilate asked, are you the christ(the son of God)? Jesus replied, "it is as you say". The crowd yelled "BLASPHEMY!" "Put him to death". And we all know the rest.
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Oh, I guess this is proof. I am sorry I was so "off the mark".

Did Christ ever say that he was concieved some special way? That Mary was a virgin when she bore him? Is there any word about this "miracle" directly from the word of Jesus himself? Was God his literal father?
 
Originally posted by rs7


Oh, I guess this is proof. I am sorry I was so "off the mark".

Did Christ ever say that he was concieved some special way? That Mary was a virgin when she bore him? Is there any word about this "miracle" directly from the word of Jesus himself? Was God his literal father?
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NO, no and no. literal father? Do you mean an earthly father who reproduces through sex? If so, no. It is a spiritual thing, apparently you have chosen not to tap into that part of yourself. Seek, and ye shall find. Jesus said, "i'm a rewarder of those who diligently seek me". Until you seek, you will continue on a path to nothing.

BOLT:D
 
Originally posted by thunderbolt


NO, no and no. literal father? Do you mean an earthly father who reproduces through sex?
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No, Bolt, I did not mean that. Nor the disrespect that that would imply. My question was only if Jesus himself proclaimed that he had no father but God. And if Jesus himself believed that Mary was a virgin when he was conceived.

You see, my problem is that it seems to me that Jesus himself (assuming he existed as a real person) did not explicitly imply that he was the Son of God. That it was only after his death that he was deified by those that loved and followed him. To my (limited) knowledge, Jesus, even according to the bible, never made any direct claims to be a deity. Am I wrong? Misinformed? I certainly may be, but that is how I understand it. And again, I mean no disrespect. My only beef with you, Tbolt, is your total rejection of any beliefs other than your own. It just makes no sense that so many can be so wrong, and only you and your very specific brand of Christianity can be correct.

rs7
 
Originally posted by thunderbolt


NO, no and no. literal father? Do you mean an earthly father who reproduces through sex? If so, no. It is a spiritual thing, apparently you have chosen not to tap into that part of yourself. Seek, and ye shall find. Jesus said, "i'm a rewarder of those who diligently seek me". Until you seek, you will continue on a path to nothing.

BOLT:D
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There is No god. There never was. you've been duped. To be honest if there is a god and you are going to heaven...I don't wanna go with you. Sorry 'ol buddy but you are boring. And lame. To spend an eternity with you would be a fate worse than HELL Now THAT is eternal damnation!:D
 
The burden of proof is on the dickheads that make the claim...

not the non-believers who prudently ask for proof.

If you wanna stake your life on the existence of a unicorn...

then you'd better be able to back it up bub.


If I say I don't believe but will with proof...


and you don't /can't come up with it.


That makes you look like the hind leg of an ASSSS!!:D
 
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