great info, seth.
thank you.
surfer
Refco Owes Jim Rogers Fund $362 Million
- Thread starter just21
- Start date
great info, seth.
thank you.
surfer
Great summary Rufus.
Rogers is speaking in Munich and Vienna Thurs-Sun. It would be nice if someone on the board here could catch up with him and get his take on status of his funds.
I've attended one of these presentations - they are folksy and freewheeling but basically indirect marketing pitches for his books and fund. (If you watch the Bloomberg presentation available on his website, that is almost exactly what he does at all of these other locations - or at least what he did out in Asia earlier this year.)
He will also typically do interviews with local media while he is in town so the local business press may ask him about it.
Thursday, October 20, 2005
Dinner Speech
Munich
msetzler@finanbuchverlag.de
Friday, October 21, 2005
19:00
GEWINN Money Fair Speech
Vienna
www.gewinn.com
Saturday, October 22, 2005
10:00 am
Munich Congress
Munich
msetzler@finanbuchverlag.de
I've attended one of these presentations - they are folksy and freewheeling but basically indirect marketing pitches for his books and fund. (If you watch the Bloomberg presentation available on his website, that is almost exactly what he does at all of these other locations - or at least what he did out in Asia earlier this year.)
He will also typically do interviews with local media while he is in town so the local business press may ask him about it.
Thursday, October 20, 2005
Dinner Speech
Munich
msetzler@finanbuchverlag.de
Friday, October 21, 2005
19:00
GEWINN Money Fair Speech
Vienna
www.gewinn.com
Saturday, October 22, 2005
10:00 am
Munich Congress
Munich
msetzler@finanbuchverlag.de
Quote from MacroEvent:
don't you all just love the recent Refco ads in "Trader" mag {pg 20 & 21} ----
"NO BOUNDARIES"
hahahaha --- i guess not!
================
Did like the ad photo, but like you & apismoclam;
never bought into the NO BOUNDARIES headline fantasy.
Should continue to be an interesting read;
like % of RFXCQ traders shorting thier stock,
stock fell from an upper BOUNDARY of $1.05.
And remember something else Jim Rogers got right;
even though his daughter is just a preschooler ,remember Jim in his book implying perhaps his daughter at the time the book was written she didnt own any RFX stock.
[Paraphrase, not a direct word for word ,book quote]
Complaint says Refco illegally shifted funds Complaint says Refco illegally shifted funds
Sunday October 30, 8:24 pm ET
A commodities fund fronted by globe-trotting investor Jim Rogers began wiring $340 million to Refco two weeks before the futures-trading company revealed an accounting blunder that prompted a criminal investigation, its CEO's arrest and the firm's collapse in bankruptcy court.
In the chaotic days that followed, Refco repeatedly assured the Rogers group its funds were safe. Instead, Rogers alleges in a bankruptcy court filing, Refco illegally shifted the funds from a government-regulated account that management had no authority to tap, to a cash-squeezed offshore entity operating outside U.S. regulatory control.
Whether a victim of bad timing or misappropriation, Rogers - a self-described "adventure capitalist" known for sharing his worldwide odyssey in search of friends, fortune and fame - now finds himself lined up with hundreds of other Refco creditors in trying to get his funds' money back. If Rogers' funds had been left in the regulated unit, they would be unaffected by the Chapter 11 filing. That unit is being auctioned Nov. 9.
Rogers declined to comment for this story.
Hedge fund lawyer Michael Koblenz, a former enforcement attorney at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, terms "very serious" the allegation Refco diverted protected funds to an unregulated unit. Koblenz says a segregated account is "supposed to protect you - the customer - so you're not just a creditor hanging out in the wind."
Another Refco creditor, Leuthold Funds, plans to stake a similar claim this week, arguing that $107 million of its funds also enjoy protection, says Leuthold attorney Scott Early. Refco had no comment. In 1996, the CFTC fined Refco $925,000 for failing to segregate customer accounts and for violating previous cease-and-desist orders.
Questions about clients' money
The Rogers complaint raises troubling new allegations about how Refco management marshaled the firm's dwindling resources in the days before its Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing.
It also points up a wrinkle in the bankruptcy code. At regulated futures-trading firms such as Refco's, segregated funds aren't held in individual customer accounts but in a larger pool that contains all segregated funds, says commodities lawyer Edmund Schroeder. Customers' funds are separated only from management's. In the event of a firm's bankruptcy, Schroeder says, customers share in any trading losses that the group might suffer as a whole. Because Refco customers invest in complex derivatives, futures and options, many trades have yet to be unwound.
As government investigators and forensic accountants scour Refco's financial statements, an accurate accounting might be months away. The U.S. Attorney's Office, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the CFTC all are investigating.
At a bankruptcy court hearing Friday, Refco attorney Gregory Milmoe argued that the assets now held by the unregulated entity, Refco Capital Markets, belong to the firm and not its customers.
The Rogers complaint provides an unusually intimate glimpse of the upheaval that enveloped Refco on Oct. 10, when the New York firm disclosed that its CEO, Philip Bennett, allegedly had disguised a $430 million personal obligation to the firm and allegedly manipulated its books to keep his debt from auditors, bankers and investors.
Bennett denies wrongdoing.
The Rogers funds, run by Chicago money manager Walter Price of Beeland Management, allege that Refco "deceitfully" diverted hundreds of millions of dollars in government securities it was depositing in a newly established segregated funds account at the regulated entity, Refco LLC.
In a series of phone calls and e-mails over several days, the Rogers group repeatedly sought - and received - assurances that the funds were deposited appropriately, according to the complaint. In one e-mail exchange Oct. 11, Refco executive Richard Butt assured Price that at least some Rogers funds were in segregated accounts.
Four hours later, the Rogers group asked Butt if he was sure the funds were safely segregated. "Yes," Butt wrote, his e-mail shows.
But Refco produced an account statement Oct. 12 showing that segregated funds had been "swept" out of Refco LLC to the unregulated Refco Capital Markets, the complaint says.
More nervous exchanges followed, including one between Price and Refco Senior Vice President Robert Mercorella, who briefly worked for the Rogers group last summer. Mercorella told Price he had "put a stop on any further transfers and would try to have the funds transferred back to Refco LLC," the Rogers group complaint says. But a colleague, Antonio Kenyatta, insisted on receiving written authorization first, the complaint says. The next day, Oct. 13, the Rogers group faxed the written orders. By then, it was too late. Refco said customer withdrawals had outstripped available funds. Four days later, it filed Chapter 11.
Sunday October 30, 8:24 pm ET
A commodities fund fronted by globe-trotting investor Jim Rogers began wiring $340 million to Refco two weeks before the futures-trading company revealed an accounting blunder that prompted a criminal investigation, its CEO's arrest and the firm's collapse in bankruptcy court.
In the chaotic days that followed, Refco repeatedly assured the Rogers group its funds were safe. Instead, Rogers alleges in a bankruptcy court filing, Refco illegally shifted the funds from a government-regulated account that management had no authority to tap, to a cash-squeezed offshore entity operating outside U.S. regulatory control.
Whether a victim of bad timing or misappropriation, Rogers - a self-described "adventure capitalist" known for sharing his worldwide odyssey in search of friends, fortune and fame - now finds himself lined up with hundreds of other Refco creditors in trying to get his funds' money back. If Rogers' funds had been left in the regulated unit, they would be unaffected by the Chapter 11 filing. That unit is being auctioned Nov. 9.
Rogers declined to comment for this story.
Hedge fund lawyer Michael Koblenz, a former enforcement attorney at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, terms "very serious" the allegation Refco diverted protected funds to an unregulated unit. Koblenz says a segregated account is "supposed to protect you - the customer - so you're not just a creditor hanging out in the wind."
Another Refco creditor, Leuthold Funds, plans to stake a similar claim this week, arguing that $107 million of its funds also enjoy protection, says Leuthold attorney Scott Early. Refco had no comment. In 1996, the CFTC fined Refco $925,000 for failing to segregate customer accounts and for violating previous cease-and-desist orders.
Questions about clients' money
The Rogers complaint raises troubling new allegations about how Refco management marshaled the firm's dwindling resources in the days before its Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing.
It also points up a wrinkle in the bankruptcy code. At regulated futures-trading firms such as Refco's, segregated funds aren't held in individual customer accounts but in a larger pool that contains all segregated funds, says commodities lawyer Edmund Schroeder. Customers' funds are separated only from management's. In the event of a firm's bankruptcy, Schroeder says, customers share in any trading losses that the group might suffer as a whole. Because Refco customers invest in complex derivatives, futures and options, many trades have yet to be unwound.
As government investigators and forensic accountants scour Refco's financial statements, an accurate accounting might be months away. The U.S. Attorney's Office, the Securities and Exchange Commission and the CFTC all are investigating.
At a bankruptcy court hearing Friday, Refco attorney Gregory Milmoe argued that the assets now held by the unregulated entity, Refco Capital Markets, belong to the firm and not its customers.
The Rogers complaint provides an unusually intimate glimpse of the upheaval that enveloped Refco on Oct. 10, when the New York firm disclosed that its CEO, Philip Bennett, allegedly had disguised a $430 million personal obligation to the firm and allegedly manipulated its books to keep his debt from auditors, bankers and investors.
Bennett denies wrongdoing.
The Rogers funds, run by Chicago money manager Walter Price of Beeland Management, allege that Refco "deceitfully" diverted hundreds of millions of dollars in government securities it was depositing in a newly established segregated funds account at the regulated entity, Refco LLC.
In a series of phone calls and e-mails over several days, the Rogers group repeatedly sought - and received - assurances that the funds were deposited appropriately, according to the complaint. In one e-mail exchange Oct. 11, Refco executive Richard Butt assured Price that at least some Rogers funds were in segregated accounts.
Four hours later, the Rogers group asked Butt if he was sure the funds were safely segregated. "Yes," Butt wrote, his e-mail shows.
But Refco produced an account statement Oct. 12 showing that segregated funds had been "swept" out of Refco LLC to the unregulated Refco Capital Markets, the complaint says.
More nervous exchanges followed, including one between Price and Refco Senior Vice President Robert Mercorella, who briefly worked for the Rogers group last summer. Mercorella told Price he had "put a stop on any further transfers and would try to have the funds transferred back to Refco LLC," the Rogers group complaint says. But a colleague, Antonio Kenyatta, insisted on receiving written authorization first, the complaint says. The next day, Oct. 13, the Rogers group faxed the written orders. By then, it was too late. Refco said customer withdrawals had outstripped available funds. Four days later, it filed Chapter 11.
That is blatant. They are trying to screw the Rogers fund. Someone should go to jail. If that is not fraud ---nothing is.
They assure him in emails that they are segregated funds and then sweep them to Refco Capital Markets. Now the Refco Sharks (lawyers) are arguing that those are NOT Rogers Groups assets! Which, if the dough would have been at Refco Capital Markets ---that would be the case. Not if it is segregated. People behind the scenes are fuming over this Refco move.
I am glad that I stopped doing business with Refco in 2001. If Rogers and other customers who are supposed to be segregated funds (which are inviolate) are kept in Refco Capital Markets. They will only get .40 cents on the dollar (according to what I just heard --maybe less).
They assure him in emails that they are segregated funds and then sweep them to Refco Capital Markets. Now the Refco Sharks (lawyers) are arguing that those are NOT Rogers Groups assets! Which, if the dough would have been at Refco Capital Markets ---that would be the case. Not if it is segregated. People behind the scenes are fuming over this Refco move.
I am glad that I stopped doing business with Refco in 2001. If Rogers and other customers who are supposed to be segregated funds (which are inviolate) are kept in Refco Capital Markets. They will only get .40 cents on the dollar (according to what I just heard --maybe less).
What an incredible...incredible mess. Where's Mr. Friedman (Ray E. Friedman)??
-c
-c
I will say if Jim Rogers don't get his money, he will want somebody to go to jail.
One big luck for the small investor is the fact that the big ones are getting hurt severely. So they will put lots of pressure on the system to make a system that protects the assets of the investors better.
It's unbelievable that in this high tech, computerized century it seems to be impossible to protect the investors.
Now lets hope that some Russians or some Columbian drugbarons get hurt also. Than they will put the Refco top on their own trial. And believe me they don't need judges or jails to solve their problems. And their solutions are very efficient and low cost.