Refco Fallout
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they can go suck my white $#%, crooks every last one of them. Im tring real hard not to take matters into my own hands, eye for an eye is my LAW. Lets see how they like scraping their loved ones off the pavement.
No.
This is a lie.
Jim Rogers and other depositors of funds totalling $1.1 billion, deposited into segregated futures accounts at Refco's regulated futures brokerage, allege they lost those funds due to embezzlement. "There's nothing to show who owes what to whom," said Michael Greenberger, a former official at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (see Trader5287's post in this thread, dated 9 Nov 2005, at 5:40 PM EST http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57333&perpage=6&pagenumber=42). They are seeking to recover it in bankruptcy court. I repeatedly brought this to Apex Capital's attention, yet he persists in contradicting it via this and other false claims.
U.S. Bankruptcy law requires that all non-defaulting public customers share equally in any uncovered deficit arising in a clearing futures broker's pool of public customer segregated funds. The law prohibits any customer from receiving a bankruptcy preference or priority over other customers. Jim Rogers, and the other jilted accountholders, may have the right to file a motion seeking that the $1.1 billion deficit be shared equally among all of Refco's public customers. They may have the right to argue that Refco's embezzlement unlawfully imposed a bankruptcy preference to their detriment. If such a motion is granted, then Rogers and the other losers will receive a partial recovery of cents on the dollar, but only because all other Refco public customers will also share equally in the same percentage loss. If such a motion were granted, public customers would recover less than half of their funds.
If such a motion is filed, I would expect it to be kept secret, by filing it under seal, until such time as the Court can decide the motion. If the Court did not keep such a motion secret, until it is decided, then publicity would trigger a massive panic of the remaining customers, stampeding out of their Refco futures accounts, leaving nothing for Rogers and the other losers to share. Such a panic would defeat the very purpose of making the motion.
If such a motion is filed and granted, then I would expect that nobody hears a word about it, until one day, people wake up and find that their Refco futures accounts have been frozen by the bankruptcy court.
Another peril is that some of the property or cash, in the pool of public customer segregated accounts, might be the proceeds from theft or embezzlement, which might have been transferred to the pool in order to conceal previous losses due to trading or embezzlement. This is a reasonable fear, given what is known about how Refco has done business for so many years. If such fears are true, then this might give rise to claims that stolen property be returned in full to its rightful owners, thus leaving the pool in deficit. Such a deficit would have to be shared equally by all public customers, as required by U.S. bankruptcy law, so that this is another way that current Refco futures account holders might take a loss.
Refco failed in its effort to sell the futures brokerage as an intact company, without including it in the overall Refco bankruptcy, because potential buyers were afraid that such a transaction would expose them to risks of litigation. I strongly suspect that they were afraid of exactly the sort of claims that I have just described. Refco has announced it is now adding its futures brokerage into its bankruptcy, in order to reduce the litigation risks faced by any buyer of its assets, or faced by any recipient of its transferred customer accounts.
Refco does business with Apex Capital, formerly known on EliteTrader as the banned waggie945. Apex Capital has an extensive history of publicly making false and misleading statements, on ET, about Refco. Oldtrader, another ET member, has endorsed Apex Capital's false statements as truthful.
Apex Capital falsely stated that it was safe to entrust funds to Refco entities, other than the one Refco entity which fraudulently concealed its related-party receivable owed it by the CEO now charged with criminal securities fraud. Apex Capital falsely asserted that the problem was confined to just that one entity. Apex Capital condemned those who contradicted his assurances, publicly attacking them as ignorant, irresponsible, mentally ill amateurs. We now know that thousands of customers lost their funds in various other Refco entities, which Apex Capital had stated were safe.
Apex Capital specifically claimed that it was safe to entrust funds to the regulated Refco futures brokerage, because, he claimed, segregated customer funds are insured and guaranteed against broker bankruptcy. This was also a completely false claim, in that no such insurance or guarantee exists; and the CFTC and the exchanges have officially warned that no such insurance or guarantee exists.
Apex Capital has never acknowledged the fact that he made any false claims or gave any questionable advice about Refco.
Apex Capital is interfering with discussions between traders concerned about Refco and broader issues of brokerage account security. He used EliteTrader to circulate numerous false statements about other members engaged in internet discussion regarding Refco. He repeatedly threatened litigation. He requested that a discussion thread on EliteTrader, entitled "Refco Account Security", be deleted, and then that thread was closed by the website administrator, within a matter of days. He then made many irrelevant and false personal attacks in the thread entitled "Refco Fallout", thus provoking strongly worded disputes, which also led to that thread being closed by the website adminstrator.
I persuaded the administrator to re-open that latter thread, but Apex Capital and Oldtrader have since filibustered and overwhelmed the thread with a flood of repetitive, dishonest, irrelevant personal attacks. The results are that few people are unwilling to read the thread or to participate in it, and its previously healthy and educational debates have been mostly paralyzed.
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
First you state:
When asked by neverwas for information regarding ANYONE who can verify your claims, you then state:
So, you KNOW this information is known to MANY people, you just don't happen to know any of those people by name! LOL!
This wouldn't be yet another of those unsubstantiated statements would it Rockford?
OldTrader
First you state:
When asked by neverwas for information regarding ANYONE who can verify your claims, you then state:
So, you KNOW this information is known to MANY people, you just don't happen to know any of those people by name! LOL!
This wouldn't be yet another of those unsubstantiated statements would it Rockford?
OldTrader
I am aware that other people know it, as a result of reading EliteTrader for years. I don't have their names or contact info, because they use bboard aliases, and remain anonymous. Would you care to reveal your own true full name and phone number and address? No? I didn't think so.
My answer to your question is that I told the truth. Which is more than you can say about your role in this thread.
When I substantiated other claims, I was labelled "obsessive" and "wordy". When I didn't substantiate just one claim, I was called "irresponsible". It's a no win situation, no matter what I do, because you and your ilk are truly scumbags to the core.
Oldtrader, I have already contributed a great deal to EliteTrader, as to lessons to be learned from the Refco scandal, and many people have thanked me publicly and privately. You have done nothing but support Apex Capital's pro-Refco agenda of lies and deception. Why don't you stop pressuring me for still more, and stop selfishly misusing this discussion as a form of entertainment, and instead, why don't you turn off your TV, do a little research work yourself, and contribute something of value yourself, you dishonest, selfish, useless old hypocrite?
neverwas, i got money with fxcm(pro) too... am not excessively worried honestly, but perhaps thats more of a personal choice 
)) ... but since u ask, heres some entertaining read on FXCM fyi:
http://www.cftc.gov/opa/enf04/opa4892-04.htm
http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/Case.aspx?entityid=0308179&case=04-80132&contrib=CFTC
http://www.scam.com/printthread.php?t=2336 kinda fun!
http://www.aboutforex.com/cases.html
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexforum/showthread.php?t=231
in short, they don't seem to exercise much due diligence over their IBs, nor white labels, and that includes refcofx (rings any bells??)... now how intentional is that is anybody's guess)) but the nfa & cftc clearly weren't amused...
now in the retail spot fx world, can't say its particularly hair-raising really, all things being relative... but this is NOT the subject of this thread, and that goes for u as well jimmy... so lets leave this for a rainy day...
)) ... but since u ask, heres some entertaining read on FXCM fyi:http://www.cftc.gov/opa/enf04/opa4892-04.htm
http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/Case.aspx?entityid=0308179&case=04-80132&contrib=CFTC
http://www.scam.com/printthread.php?t=2336 kinda fun!
http://www.aboutforex.com/cases.html
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexforum/showthread.php?t=231
in short, they don't seem to exercise much due diligence over their IBs, nor white labels, and that includes refcofx (rings any bells??)... now how intentional is that is anybody's guess
)) but the nfa & cftc clearly weren't amused...now in the retail spot fx world, can't say its particularly hair-raising really, all things being relative... but this is NOT the subject of this thread, and that goes for u as well jimmy... so lets leave this for a rainy day...
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