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Refco Account Security
- Thread starter Htrader
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FIA isn't an FCM, so no.Quote from Apex Capital:
Interesting article.
Is this the FCM official that supports your conclusion above:
"John Damgard, president of Futures Industry Association, told FO Week that the case should be looked at in context as a corporate scandal, not a customer scandal, as no customer accounts were affected."
"The important thing here is that the regulated entity does not appear to be affected at all," Damgard said. "They passed their audit with the ( Chicago Mercantile Exchange ), which was their self-regulator, with flying colours. I think this whole thing comes as a surprise to the people who were really running the core business there."
Jim Kharouf of FO Week
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
One would have thought that moderators at ET would have DELETED this particular thread and its HEADLINE but it just goes to show that they have no problem condoning highly incorrect and libelous information.
It makes ET look like amateur-hour.
It really does.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
One would have thought that moderators at ET would have DELETED this particular thread and its HEADLINE but it just goes to show that they have no problem condoning highly incorrect and libelous information.
It makes ET look like amateur-hour.
It really does.
Quote from Apex Capital:
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
One would have thought that moderators at ET would have DELETED this particular thread and its HEADLINE but it just goes to show that they have no problem condoning highly incorrect and libelous information.
It makes ET look like amateur-hour.
It really does.
Do you own part of REFCO? Curious cause you seem to get real antsy when anyone posts something negative on them.
Quote from Apex Capital:
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
One would have thought that moderators at ET would have DELETED this particular thread and its HEADLINE but it just goes to show that they have no problem condoning highly incorrect and libelous information.
It makes ET look like amateur-hour.
It really does.
What a joke.......to term anything "libelous" about this situation is ludicrous......"rumours" were floating around on ET months ago about Refco........I'd say they got the story right!
Quote from Apex Capital:
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
I can see why people might be "misinformed"...
Oct. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Refco Inc., the futures broker under investigation for hiding a $430 million debt, filed for court protection from creditors in the fourth-largest U.S. bankruptcy.
link to article
Quote from Apex Capital:
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
One would have thought that moderators at ET would have DELETED this particular thread and its HEADLINE but it just goes to show that they have no problem condoning highly incorrect and libelous information.
It makes ET look like amateur-hour.
It really does.
Sir, it would serve you well to tone down your incessant rhetoric. I would also advise you to channel your obsessive compulsive disorder towards more worthwhile causes.
Quote from Apex Capital:
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation.
Even to this day, ( and even after 55 pages on this particular thread ) there is a thread on ET entitled, "REFCO Futures Unit to File For Bankruptcy" in the Wall Street News Forum of ET which is obviously totally incorrect.
One would have thought that moderators at ET would have DELETED this particular thread and its HEADLINE but it just goes to show that they have no problem condoning highly incorrect and libelous information.
It makes ET look like amateur-hour.
It really does.
I am sorry Apex but your comments throughout this thread have been very misleading. How you can try and pass judjemnt on others is beyond me. This thread was about "Refco Account Security" and started off with a lot of people saying the money has been repaid and the shares are cheap after the fall.
What a load of rubbish that was and to anyone with half a brain it should have been from the first second. These cases are about confidence and liquidity and Refco lost both the second it declared the accounting problem. It should have been apparent that all Reco units would face severe problems becuase of it and there could have been no upside to keeping funds with them.
You asked what evidence I had that banks would be pulling the Refco line and asked me to stop speculating! I didnt need evidence but just used my experience and common sense. I have been proved 100% right. Perhaps being a director of a bank when Barings collapsed gave me a little clue how banks react in these situations.
I hope no one reading this thread followed you or the people of similar belief's advice. If they had done and decided the problem was just at one Refco company and would not spread to the others then the chance are they have lost all the trading capital held with the fx arm. You probably won't care becuase you only trade futures but perhaps in future you might like to post a bit more carefully. Banking and especially liquidity management (and this is what has brought the Refco Group down) is a little more complicated than a few segregated futures accounts.
As a final point and please respond directly to a single straight forward question. A yes or no answer is all that is required. You stated in numerous answers that the problem at the Refco Holding company would not affect the futures arm in any way. Indeed you had many reasons why this would be impossible and were very rude to anyone who suggested otherwise. Would you say the futures arm of Refco has been affected in any way now or is it still entirely unaffected?
POST 1 OF 2
AMATEUR HOUR?
I promised Apex Capital a response, and I would so hate to disappoint him, so here goes.
Apex Capital complains, thusly, about all the amateurs in this discussion:
Letâs see what the professional regulators at Chicago Mercantile Exchange are telling us at http://www.cme.com/clearing/set/fs/finsafsys10241.html
A professional futures trader, in other words, must perform due diligence as to his selection of a clearing member, especially when trading other peopleâs money. Due diligence is needed in order to minimize the risk of clients losing their funds in a broker bankruptcy.
But Apex Capital, as a professional man of wisdom superior to you or I, knows better:
And because us simple folk, here at Elite Trader, are so limited in our mental faculties, Apex repeated this message over and over again, across many threads, spreading the Word and religion that futures accounts are guaranteed by the exchanges.
He was joined by another professional of superior mental powers, also a true believer, a professional vendor of technical analysis, called Brandonf, who posted:
Brandonf, maybe you should stick to drawing trendlines? Itâs a good thing that Brandonfâs opinion was IMHO (in my humble opinion). If he had presumed to give an arrogant opinion, this might have antagonized Apex, the only ET member divinely annointed to give arrogant opinionsâ¦
CONTINUED IN NEXT POSTING
AMATEUR HOUR?
I promised Apex Capital a response, and I would so hate to disappoint him, so here goes.
Apex Capital complains, thusly, about all the amateurs in this discussion:
I must say that there were an awful lot of misinformed people on this thread, making some highly ignorant and incorrect assessments of the REFCO situation. *** It makes ET look like amateur-hour. It really does.
Letâs see what the professional regulators at Chicago Mercantile Exchange are telling us at http://www.cme.com/clearing/set/fs/finsafsys10241.html
Futures market customers face credit risk in doing business through any particular clearing member. Consequently, the selection process for a suitable clearing member is important. While the regulations dealing with segregation of customer monies are specifically designed to protect customers from the consequences of a clearing memberâs failure, they do not always provide complete protection should the default be caused by another customer at that firm. Protection against a customer-caused default rests primarily with the management of the clearing member and the importance placed on its internal risk management controls.
A professional futures trader, in other words, must perform due diligence as to his selection of a clearing member, especially when trading other peopleâs money. Due diligence is needed in order to minimize the risk of clients losing their funds in a broker bankruptcy.
But Apex Capital, as a professional man of wisdom superior to you or I, knows better:
The segregated accounts that are in Refco LLC are separate from Refco Holdings and the amount of these funds held in these segregated accounts is reported on a daily basis to regulators. In the end, the CME's clearing house guarantees these funds.
And because us simple folk, here at Elite Trader, are so limited in our mental faculties, Apex repeated this message over and over again, across many threads, spreading the Word and religion that futures accounts are guaranteed by the exchanges.
He was joined by another professional of superior mental powers, also a true believer, a professional vendor of technical analysis, called Brandonf, who posted:
You would get your money back. They (Refco) are members of the Exchange Clearing Corp, and all of the other FCMs would have to back them up on the losses.
Brandonf, maybe you should stick to drawing trendlines? Itâs a good thing that Brandonfâs opinion was IMHO (in my humble opinion). If he had presumed to give an arrogant opinion, this might have antagonized Apex, the only ET member divinely annointed to give arrogant opinionsâ¦
CONTINUED IN NEXT POSTING
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