Refco Account Security

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Quote from Apex Capital:

Every single one of my posts today has focused on REFCO LLC and the segregated futures accounts that are held there.
Anyone that has been reading my posts, or this thread can clearly see this, not too mention my constructive effort at making a distinction between REFCO HOLDINGS and REFCO LLC.

By the way, you have still yet to answer my question about how the liquidity crisis at REFCO HOLDINGS will effect segregated futures accounts at REFCO LLC.

I'm still waiting for your answer.
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I am not getting into a slanging match with anyone and I have made my views known since this mess first blew up and explained my thoughts in some detail.

My view is that an awful lot of organisations will not give credit or carry out business with any Refco related company at the moment. Clients will also take the view that it is safer to withdraw their funds for the time being.

No one can trust the figures about Refco LLC after what has happened at Refco Holding. Although unlikely, who is to say that there are not intra-company transfers and that client funds have not been used to prop up other areas of the business.

In the UK traders at Mac/Refco were told it was not a big deal etc etc and this is on the futures side. Those who believed the spin now have had their futures accounts frozen, I believe.
 
Quote from Lon Eagle:

No one can trust the figures about Refco LLC after what has happened at Refco Holding. Although unlikely, who is to say that there are not intra-company transfers and that client funds have not been used to prop up other areas of the business.
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If you actually believe this, then you must also believe that the REGULATORS that account for the DAILY funds held in segregated accounts of REFCO LLC must also be looking the other way . . .

I don't find that likely.
 
also, according to the SEC these guys seem to have some relevant expertise: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p="M...eb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt

notably (quote):
Maintaining assets in an FCM's custody is not
without risk. An FCM is financially
responsible for the trade obligations of its
customers. JOHNSON & HAZEN, supra note 2, at
section 1.10. If an FCM becomes insolvent and
cannot cover the obligations of a defaulting
customer, the FCM's non-defaulting customers
may be affected. The clearing organization has
the right to use customer assets held at the
clearing organization level to satisfy a
commodity loss on behalf of the FCM's
customers. The resulting shortfall in the
customer assets may be borne by the FCM's non-
defaulting customers. See supra note 11 and
infra note 17, and accompanying text (regarding
FCM bankruptcy provisions). To date, however,
losses of customer funds have been rare. See
Andrea M. Corcoran & Susan C. Ervin,
Maintenance of Market Strategies in Futures
Broker Insolvencies: Futures Position
Transfers From Troubled Firms, 44 WASH. & LEE
L. REV. 849, 863-64 (1987) ("customer losses
have been forestalled . . . , in significant
measure, by the voluntary contributions of
futures exchanges").


This doesn't seem to say 'never 1 cent of losses' but ok, no nit-picking... however if there is a big blow-up w the Refco Group as a whole (chap 11 etc), i for one happily admit that i have no idea what may happen w their clients' segregated futures accts...
 
Quote from 2cents:



This doesn't seem to say 'never 1 cent of losses' but ok, no nit-picking... however if there is a big blow-up w the Refco Group as a whole (chap 11 etc), i for one happily admit that i have no idea what may happen w their clients' segregated futures accts...
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There has never been 1 cent lost in segragated accounts. In the past the Exchange Clearing Corp has never failed to make good on its obligation.
 
agree u guys r in a much better position than margin fx accts holders with any refco group affiliate, thats for sure

going to bed now ;-) cheers all... lets hope for the best! (now that my clients' monies r safe...)
 
Quote from Apex Capital:

If you actually believe this, then you must also believe that the REGULATORS that account for the DAILY funds held in segregated accounts of REFCO LLC must also be looking the other way . . .

I don't find that likely.
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I am sure the regulators are looking at Refco LLC very closely - do you think they will adopt a laissez fair attitude and say it doesn't matter - Refco LLC and Refco LLC are seperate companies!

I hope it is all okay though and that in a months time it is all forgotten.

I will point out that earlier this week though when people were asking about the situation you were talking about Refco Holdings and saying it is ina stronger position that a week ago because it has just received $400modd plus interest. It has only taken a couple of days for your claim on this to be proven completely false and mis-leading.
 
Quote from Lon Eagle:

I will point out that earlier this week though when people were asking about the situation you were talking about Refco Holdings and saying it is ina stronger position that a week ago because it has just received $400modd plus interest. It has only taken a couple of days for your claim on this to be proven completely false and mis-leading.
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Excuse me, but please point out where I stated that REFCO Holdings was
"in a stronger position than a week ago".

As I recall, I merely pointed out that the loan had been repaid, with interest,
on the very first page of this thread. Show me where I stated otherwise.

Please stop misrepresenting what I have posted so that you can make you and your ego feel better.
 
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