Reasons for failur in automatic trading systems

Quote from acrary:

There's lots of these edges around...just don't expect to find them in the o, h,l, c data.

Not sure if acrary will return to this thread, but if anyone else can answer...I've been thinking about this and though I understand based on the example he provided, it seems hard to believe one can't discern certain repeatable patterns--at least to some significant degree--from the OHLC data. After all, whatever time frame one uses, that data is used to assess the behavior and the current situation existing for whatever trading instrument one's using. It seems since human nature is somewhat repetitive, that this kind of info should at least be considered in finding an "edge."
 
Quote from BertH:

Not sure if acrary will return to this thread, but if anyone else can answer...I've been thinking about this and though I understand based on the example he provided, it seems hard to believe one can't discern certain repeatable patterns--at least to some significant degree--from the OHLC data. After all, whatever time frame one uses, that data is used to assess the behavior and the current situation existing for whatever trading instrument one's using. It seems since human nature is somewhat repetitive, that this kind of info should at least be considered in finding an "edge."

I'm a profitable trader which focus a lot on OHLC data. There ARE FOR SURE repetitive patterns inside.

Price-&-volume charts are my important edges which everyone can readily access.
 
WmWaster, I'm finding more and more leaning toward solely price and volume action, rather than incorporating indicators too. Maybe there's room for them to some degree, just not sure if they're necessary.

Thanks for your reply, btw.
 
Quote from BertH:

WmWaster, I'm finding more and more leaning toward solely price and volume action, rather than incorporating indicators too. Maybe there's room for them to some degree, just not sure if they're necessary.

Thanks for your reply, btw.

I don't use indicator (much) either. They are only supplementary. (I know there're successful indicator traders, but not me). Little use to me unless I'm in automated trading.

I like to read raw data (ie OHLC & V) instead of the condensed version. I can get much more informaton from raw data. Why read the condensed versions?

I remembered I moved one big step forward when I switched my major reliance on (pairs of) indicators to raw data.

Thanks for your thanks too, BertH.
 
Quote from WmWaster:

Similar points/logic apply to automated trading systems, and I have mentioned one example briefly which you should get it if you have some basic trading understanding.

However I have to say I haven't involved in automated trading personally.

Quote from WmWaster:

Reading reviews, subscribe magazines which talk about automated systems should help you spot the genuine ones.


Thanks for your expert advice.
 
Quote from WmWaster:

I like to read raw data (ie OHLC & V) instead of the condensed version. I can get much more informaton from raw data. Why read the condensed versions?

I remembered I moved one big step forward when I switched my major reliance on (pairs of) indicators to raw data.

Thanks for your thanks too, BertH.

WmWaster, I look at various time frames on the OHLC/V spectrum, such as daily, hourly, half hourly, etc. Frankly, I'm not quite there yet, though I think I'm close. (as far as figuring a very effective trading plan)
What are you referring to when you say "raw data"--tick-by-tick?
'preciate it!
 
Never mind. I was slow on the draw earlier. You contrasted 'em to indicators, so I can assume you're solely referring to the price and volume action without the need for the indicators.
 
Quote from Don Bright:

Yes, it would seem that "being on the right side of the market" is the ultimate goal....let me know when someone has figured that out....LOL. Perhaps pairs traders with long/short positions.

Don

Why do you persist in pimping this antiquated strategy? Stat arb is done, Don. Come on. That's like someone trying to sell a buggy whip.
 
Quote from Don Bright:

Hedging strategies generally have about a 70+% success rate, as does the opening only strategy, and for the most part, good tape reading, and of course correlated pairs trading.

Of course we are going to be "wrong" - but I look at it this way.. In blackjace, with a plus 5 count and no aces out, I will bet a high wager...even though there is a 50/50 chance that the dealer will get blackjack, not me....if I lose, I will do it again under the same circumstances....however, blackjack is finite, trading is not... so we must simply accept loses, cover them, and go on....

Don

Perhaps because everyone doing it? The logical conclusion of such a sound strategy would be to slice up the returns of it... requiring greater and greater leverage to make decent money, which eventually makes the potential for drawdown so great that it's no longer worth it.

We've reached and exceeded that point with Stat Arb strategies.
 
Quote from BertH:

Never mind. I was slow on the draw earlier. You contrasted 'em to indicators, so I can assume you're solely referring to the price and volume action without the need for the indicators.

Yes, you are right. :D

Indicators are the packaged version of OHLC/V.

But I know some traders can trade solely by tape & tick charts. Amazing! Anyway, I'm not going to be an all-master. :p


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Quote from OddTrader:

Thanks for your expert advice.

Glad to hear I'm helpful. :)
Thanks for your thanks.
 
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