Reality of Day Trading

[tiddlywinks]

There is nothing wrong with MY calculations.

More importantly, only a moron would think futures are the ONLY viable vehicle to generate 5k/day. Not too mention swingin around 100 contracts of anything is capital intensive. Oh yea... 1 ES point is a no brainer, that's why everyone does it!

 

[bone]

From what I've seen, day trading is much harder than it used to be - at least with futures. The only real exception that I've seen has been the rare bird with a well designed automated trading system running through a very good ECN.

When I was in the Pit, I had about a half-second speed advantage which was tangible. The early days of electronic trading were simply glorious for scalping and day trading on the screen. And of course, then came the modern algos, bots, and HF chicanery.

So if someone asked me right now, what path to go down...

I would say: Swing Trade. IMO it is easier to learn and it is easier to be good at it compared to day trading. I would start out with the cheapest instruments to trade: three products that come to mind are futures spreads, or micro futures, or the smallest block of equity shares.

I cannot think of a worse situation than someone sitting there with a $5K account with a mouse in his or her hand eyes glued to a screen trying to manually scalp modern electronic markets.

Of course, if you've been making money for years scalping and day trading day in and day out regardless of market cycles and conditions - I will be the first to call you a boss and you just keep being you.

That is just my own opinion, YMMV, and I wish everyone good fortune!

 

[Overnight]

From what I've seen, day trading is much harder than it used to be - at least with futures. The only real exception that I've seen has been the rare bird with a well designed automated trading system running through a very good ECN.

When I was in the Pit, I had about a half-second speed advantage which was tangible. The early days of electronic trading were simply glorious for scalping and day trading on the screen. And of course, then came the modern algos, bots, and HF chicanery.

So if someone asked me right now, what path to go down...

I would say: Swing Trade. IMO it is easier to learn and it is easier to be good at it compared to day trading. I would start out with the cheapest instruments to trade: three products that come to mind are futures spreads, or micro futures, or the smallest block of equity shares.

I cannot think of a worse situation than someone sitting there with a $5K account with a mouse in his or her hand eyes glued to a screen trying to manually scalp modern electronic markets.

Of course, if you've been making money for years scalping and day trading day in and day out regardless of market cycles and conditions - I will be the first to call you a boss and you just keep being you.

That is just my own opinion, YMMV, and I wish everyone good fortune!

Bone, yer repeating yerself. And suddenly it is last summer.

 

[virtusa]

There is nothing wrong with MY calculations.

More importantly, only a moron would think futures are the ONLY viable vehicle to generate 5k/day. Not too mention swingin around 100 contracts of anything is capital intensive. Oh yea... 1 ES point is a no brainer, that's why everyone does it!

You really sound like a frustrated "trader" who is unable to daytrade profitably.
I never said futures are the only viable solution. I just specified that so that people would understand that my opinion is based on that.

100 contracts is capital intensive???
What is intensive? 5K, 50K, 250K. It all depends of your wealth. 100 contracts is to me not heavily capital intensive, for you apparently it is. And on 100 contracts my profit is far bigger than 5K average.

Your calculation is wrong, but you don't seem to understand it. I will not explain it, just try to learn what compounding means. Although it will not help for you I think. You don't have to make 5K a day from start.

 

[Turveyd]

There is nothing wrong with MY calculations.

More importantly, only a moron would think futures are the ONLY viable vehicle to generate 5k/day. Not too mention swingin around 100 contracts of anything is capital intensive. Oh yea... 1 ES point is a no brainer, that's why everyone does it!

Making the first half million to have enough to cover the margin is the tricky part.

Especially as I've only put $600 total into my trading account, took 10 years to get it to 9k, withdrawn 4K so be 13k area without that.

200k 2030
4mil 2040. Based on that projection easy.

 

[smallfil]

Yes, and thank you. but I already knew all of that.

She could have easily finished with, with my account of X, I averaged X during X, while having drawdowns of X. No need to try to fancily avoid the question. It might sound fancy but it is still avoiding the actual question.

but maybe I mean expecting someone that claims to be a trader, and has a video literally ****ing titled, "how much do traders make", to offer an answer is just outright silly if not rude of me.

Maybe try and pitch your or her explanation while trying to raise funds from investors. Im sure theyll be thrilled at the logic of it all. and quite impressed if I must say.

Do not work for her or affiliated with her. Not here to promote her. She is very low on the totem pole compared to the likes of Timothy Sykes and Ross Cameron, of so called day trading gurus. I rarely, start new threads too. Just thought it would be interesting for discussion purposes because so many gurus promoting day trading peddle the dream of making $1,000,000 with a newbie trader having just $1,000 or $2,000. Nothing wrong with having a small account. Big accounts start with small accounts. Turning that $1,000 into $5,000 then, $10,000 is more realistic and probably, can be done. Then, $10,000 into $50,000-$80,000? Compounding monies is faster with day traders because monies are put to work every single day. Do not day trade as I am a swing trader, trend follower.

 

[Stockboy]

Do not work for her or affiliated with her. Not here to promote her. She is very low on the totem pole compared to the likes of Timothy Sykes and Ross Cameron, of so called day trading gurus. I rarely, start new threads too. Just thought it would be interesting for discussion purposes because so many gurus promoting day trading peddle the dream of making $1,000,000 with a newbie trader having just $1,000 or $2,000. Nothing wrong with having a small account. Big accounts start with small accounts. Turning that $1,000 into $5,000 then, $10,000 is more realistic and probably, can be done. Then, $10,000 into $50,000-$80,000? Compounding monies is faster with day traders because monies are put to work every single day. Do not day trade as I am a swing trader, trend follower.

I understand smallfil and appreciate your contribution.

My argument however, is people who go around calling themselves a "trader", than have a youtube channel with a very large library, which from my brief glance appears to be offering trading advice, than literally have a video titled, "how much do daytraders make", and doesnt even answer the question is a little bit...

I have yet to read 'Skin in the Game' but he makes a very interesting point that (paraphrasing) traders basically dont have the luxury of being judged by our peers but that we are judged by our PnL, which helps keep us aligned with reality. Im not saying every trader needs to tell the world their PnL but this is a bit ****ing much. I somewhat understand clickbait and developing an audience, etc. But its still kind of "ewww"

But this "trader" doesnt really seem like she is being judged by her PnL but rather by her audience ? Does that still qualify as being a trader? if we use the having skin in the game as a prerequisite? Its easy AF to discuss trading in theory...

Imagine if I was claiming to be a trader, had +100 posts giving my trading advice, than had a new thread titled "how much do day-traders make", and gave the same b******t *** response, well it depends how much you risk, blah,blah,blah. Yes no ****ing ***t every "trader" should already be well, well aware of that.

I guess that is what kind of annoys me about the whole thing. Dont even know how long she has been trading or if she considers herself a real trader rather than just entertainment but...

 

[tiddlywinks]

You really sound like a frustrated "trader" who is unable to daytrade profitably.
I never said futures are the only viable solution. I just specified that so that people would understand that my opinion is based on that.

100 contracts is capital intensive???
What is intensive? 5K, 50K, 250K. It all depends of your wealth. 100 contracts is to me not heavily capital intensive, for you apparently it is. And on 100 contracts my profit is far bigger than 5K average.

Your calculation is wrong, but you don't seem to understand it. I will not explain it, just try to learn what compounding means. Although it will not help for you I think. You don't have to make 5K a day from start.

Who'da thunk it? 'Lil ol' me getting unsolicited advice from a truly elite trader. WOW! First thing Monday morning I'm upping my account size so I too can start compounding. 1 ES point x 100 contracts. The big swinging dick trading plan.

 

[virtusa]

First thing Monday morning I'm upping my account size so I too can start compounding. 1 ES point x 100 contracts.

You just confirmed that you really have no clue what I talk about.
Compounding is just the OPPOSITE of upping your account. ROFLMAO.

Maybe look up the definition of compounding. But I see indications that you will again not get it.
Maybe it is better to continue watching Youtube. Has less intellectual challenges and/or barriers. Is more fitted for you probably.

 

[realtrades]

Just take what the market gives you, 1 trade at a time.
https://twitter.com/TradesReal