BINGO! You said it, jack...
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Real Trading Strategies
- Thread starter downtickboy
- Start date
BINGO! You said it, jack...
Originally posted by inandlong
again dtb... all the strategies revealed here are already revealed in any good book. Try any good book written before 1999. This way you won't be getting some "guru" who had it figured out... since Oct 1998.
Any one of those books re: Level 2 and the Ax was written after Oct 1998 I guarantee it. Se if you can find any good shorting strategies in those books. There aren't any.
Well from the traders I know and see a lot of what they are doing is not shown in a book. For instance there are not a lot of good books on trading NYSE stocks. Besides its seems like all strategies go thru cycles of working and not working. A lot of the books give the general basics of buy the breakout ect. By the way I have read several good and bad books. If all the info was in the books then why would traders be so reluctant to say how they are trading. I have not read anything like the GNP used by Praetorian2. Let me state that I am not an E-trade/Ameritrade type trader.
Originally posted by easyrider
Downtick
You are putting words in my mouth. I was merely asking a question . I probably should have started a separate thread with it because there may be benefits to sharing strategies, I dont know.
When I read your first post it seemed like you were questioning why I would write a thread seeking this type of advice because no one is going to share unless they get something out of it. Which may well be very true. I am trying to find the ones that will. I have had a couple real posts, but mostly generic answers and people giving me back questions instead of answers or replies to the topic. It is getting frusterating trying to get any real info. Nitro was kind of right so far about most of the posts here on ET.
Originally posted by Kymar
That's a broad question.
Did something special occur in your trading life that led you to begin this thread?
Does not seem like too broad of an answer. I am sure there are certain strategies you use and look for during the trading day. If you were going to write a book then they are probably would not be effected by sharing one of them here.
About me starting this thread, there are a few reasons. First I am trying to see if coming to ET is really a waste of my time. It is mostly advertisement and I am afraid a lot of posts by people who don't trade, don't make money, and for some reason come here with multiple alias to talk to themselves. A lot of the info being dished out by these people sounds like they are quoting a book or it does not have credibility because they do not trade themselves. I have been trading for two years and at this point make money every month but of course I want to make more. If I am not making a certain amount the opportunity cost does not work out right because of the unstablility of trading. I love trading but I also enjoy vacations and all the other stuff that comes from making more money or having a more stable life. I realized awhile ago that my strategy that I learned thru some traders I traded with was becoming more obsolete as time passed. I needed to change which I have been doing. I was hoping to start some dialoge with traders that were doing better than I was trading differently than I was. If I am not making $400 or $500 average a day or working up to it then it is not worth doing it on a full time basis as I am doing now.
easyrider, For me there sure is. Especially if I have worked really hard at something. It usually involves many mistakes and countless deadends. Then when it is all done I say, "It would have been easy if I had done it the right way from the start."
Well, I can't go back in time and start over, but if you can help somebody else avoid the mistakes and deadends, it is just like being able to go back in time.
(besides, I don't think any of us talk freely about what is working for us currently, and if what we are using has any value, then we would probably already know that it's no secret.)
Well, I can't go back in time and start over, but if you can help somebody else avoid the mistakes and deadends, it is just like being able to go back in time.
(besides, I don't think any of us talk freely about what is working for us currently, and if what we are using has any value, then we would probably already know that it's no secret.)
Originally posted by profitseer
easyrider, For me there sure is. Especially if I have worked really hard at something. It usually involves many mistakes and countless deadends. Then when it is all done I say, "It would have been easy if I had done it the right way from the start."
Well, I can't go back in time and start over, but if you can help somebody else avoid the mistakes and deadends, it is just like being able to go back in time.
(besides, I don't think any of us talk freely about what is working for us currently, and if what we are using has any value, then we would probably already know that it's no secret.)
I like your point of view on the subject.
Originally posted by downtickboy
* * *
If you were going to write a book then they are probably would not be effected by sharing one of them here.
That's a matter of some debate in these parts. I tend to agree with you, but, in addition to whatever risk there might conceivably be the future tradability of something that happens to be working right now, there might be several other reasons as well for an individual not to want to go into them in public.
About me starting this thread, there are a few reasons. First I am trying to see if coming to ET is really a waste of my time.
Probably. Works for me as a diversion, sometimes as a way to test my own thinking about something or another. Sooner or later, though, the site usually starts to get depressing.
I have been trading for two years and at this point make money every month but of course I want to make more.
* * *
I realized awhile ago that my strategy that I learned thru some traders I traded with was becoming more obsolete as time passed.
* * *
If I am not making $400 or $500 average a day or working up to it then it is not worth doing it on a full time basis as I am doing now.
If you told us what you were doing that was working well enough to be profitable but not quite returning what you were hoping for, we MIGHT be able to give you some suggestions.
If, on the other hand, you're reluctant to describe your strategy in detail, then you can't really question why others might also be...
There is benefit from helping others. You learn by teaching. Helps you figure out what you are doing right. Trying to put your strategy into words often brings about new revelations.
The problem is that trading strategies are very complicated and can't really be summarized in a few posts.
My trading decisions are based on dozens of variables. I've tried to explain some of this. I know that if certain variables come in line then they should produce a profitable trading opportunity. To be a succussful trader your brain has to be trained to take in and analyze all of these variables in mere moments.
No 2 trading scenarios are completely identical. But many scenarios are very similar and often will produce a similar result.
I'm not sure that it is really possible to teach another person my system of trading. Because so much of it is "feel". Every person "views" the market differently. I view the market based on having watched the market every day for the past 4 years. How do i teach someone that experience. To be a great trader i think you have to be able to feel the "life blood" of the market. My biggest day ever was the day the market bottomed in July. I could feel the mkt turn. I knew i had to buy the market when it was down, and then buy like crazy as futures crossed to unchanged. Then i knew i had to hold for 20 more sp500 ponts. I'm not sure how you can teach that to some one else.
All i can really hope to teach to another trader are the basics. The stuff written in books like, don't fight the trend. Add to winners early, don't average down. Buy stocks that don't want to go down. Use these time tested techniques as the backdrop for your system. Then tweak it with short term trading tools like TOS and level 2 ect.
The problem is that trading strategies are very complicated and can't really be summarized in a few posts.
My trading decisions are based on dozens of variables. I've tried to explain some of this. I know that if certain variables come in line then they should produce a profitable trading opportunity. To be a succussful trader your brain has to be trained to take in and analyze all of these variables in mere moments.
No 2 trading scenarios are completely identical. But many scenarios are very similar and often will produce a similar result.
I'm not sure that it is really possible to teach another person my system of trading. Because so much of it is "feel". Every person "views" the market differently. I view the market based on having watched the market every day for the past 4 years. How do i teach someone that experience. To be a great trader i think you have to be able to feel the "life blood" of the market. My biggest day ever was the day the market bottomed in July. I could feel the mkt turn. I knew i had to buy the market when it was down, and then buy like crazy as futures crossed to unchanged. Then i knew i had to hold for 20 more sp500 ponts. I'm not sure how you can teach that to some one else.
All i can really hope to teach to another trader are the basics. The stuff written in books like, don't fight the trend. Add to winners early, don't average down. Buy stocks that don't want to go down. Use these time tested techniques as the backdrop for your system. Then tweak it with short term trading tools like TOS and level 2 ect.
Originally posted by nitro
Trading is about having an edge and a set of market conditions that favors your strategy - period. Remeber this well, markets chage, and nothing lasts forever - try to find those traders that have survived 5, or preferably 10 or more years doing this - THOSE are the guys you want to emulate because they are the ones that have the "creativity" [for lack of a better word] to have adapted and have survived their "strategies" being "arbed" out, or simply the market conditions have changed.
This stuff you read about adding to losers and managing your money, etc, is for people that started trading two weeks ago and just read Van Tharps book or Douglass's book. The stuff about flipping a coin and managing your money to make a living trading is just inane.
It is incredible how many times the same generic answer gets given on these boards. TRADING IS IN THE DETAILS, and the details are not in indicators. They are in ever changing strategies that at their core give you an edge that you can milk until they stop "letting you." That coupled with your talent to interpret the story that is being told better than the guy/girl that is taking the other side of your trade - period. There is no shortcut to this state thru indicators, etc, only through the pain/joy of experience of trading day in and day out.
nitro
Exactly ...
Here's one of my specific systems using 3 min. ES bars.
First trade of day is only taken in the direction of the open, so if the market gaps down, my first trade will be on the short side.
After that,
Buy at highest high of last 6 bars.
Sell at lowest low of last 6 bars.
Exit long at lowest low of last 4 bars.
Exit short at highest high of last 4 bars.
Close all open positions at the end of the day.
After every 1k per-contract in losses, increase the number of contracts traded by 1 until a trend happens again and the account sets a new equity high.
Not very exciting, but does make consistent money. Of course I have a large account, so I can withstand drawdowns from many losses. No edge...but I don't need one for this to work.
First trade of day is only taken in the direction of the open, so if the market gaps down, my first trade will be on the short side.
After that,
Buy at highest high of last 6 bars.
Sell at lowest low of last 6 bars.
Exit long at lowest low of last 4 bars.
Exit short at highest high of last 4 bars.
Close all open positions at the end of the day.
After every 1k per-contract in losses, increase the number of contracts traded by 1 until a trend happens again and the account sets a new equity high.
Not very exciting, but does make consistent money. Of course I have a large account, so I can withstand drawdowns from many losses. No edge...but I don't need one for this to work.