Readings in Obama's Nobel + What's To Come

[a_person]

Quote from riskfreetrading:

I cannot think of anyone who changed the mood of the world in such short time and in such a profound manner than Obama did.

Hmm, where exactly in the world has the mood changed? Not in Iraq obviously, not in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Certainly not in Iran where elections were stolen and the development of nuclear weapons accelerated. Not in Russia, not in the Middle East, not in Africa (Libya, Sudan, Somalia), not anywhere else.

Of course people all over the world who hated the US for electing Bush are now in love with the US for electing a black president with a muslim middle name. It speaks volume about the open-mindedness of americans and stupidity of the rest of the world of course. It says absolutely nothing about Obama.

 

[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:

Any person who doesn't know the difference between Norway and Sweden can't be all that bright.

Hey, destroyer, aren't you Norwegian? You're the laughing stock of the planet today and quite deservedly so. There is virtually no newspaper or media outlet anywhere in the world regardless of its political leanings that would not acknowledge that Obama has done absolutely nothing yet to earn the award. The choice is far more pathetic than Arafat was 15 years ago. At least Arafat had a lifetime of accomplishments...

 

[a_person]

Quote from Barth Vader:

So, if I understand your opinion correctly, Mr. Obama is the "One" because of a perceived throwing of Israel under the bus ?
And this hoped for denial of a long standing, mutual allegience between the USA and Israel is the reason for new found "hope" in the USA and the world at large ?

I would not actually put it past them. Norway has been extremely hostile to Israel lately, that five Norwegian politicians give Obama this totally undeserved award for his perceived animosity toward Israel would not surprise me a bit.

But let's be fair and see it for what it is. The prize was not awarded based on the will of the people (in fact the entire world is shocked and in disbelief), or the world's opinion, it was based on the views of five Norwegian politicians elected by ultra-leftist, socialist Norwegian parliament. Who cares? Besides they shot themselves in the foot by completely cheapening the award.

 

[destroyer]

Quote from Ricter:

Well, if you're attacking just one person's arguments, you don't really need to be an expert to know the difference between "their" and "they're". Am I being trivial?

No, you're being mentally deficient. The difference between grammatical errors and mixing up countries might not be so clear to someone with your world view though.

Quote from a_person:

Hey, destroyer, aren't you Norwegian? You're the laughing stock of the planet today and quite deservedly so. There is virtually no newspaper or media outlet anywhere in the world regardless of its political leanings that would not acknowledge that Obama has done absolutely nothing yet to earn the award. The choice is far more pathetic than Arafat was 15 years ago. At least Arafat had a lifetime of accomplishments...

The five members of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee are not the entire Norwegian population. Aside from yourself, who's laughing at us?

Arafat got the prize because he denounced terrorism and went into peaceful negotiations, which would have brought peace if Israel had stopped expanding their settlements on stolen land. The leaving terrorism for peace negotiations part, is similar to what Nelson Mandela did.

I would not actually put it past them. Norway has been extremely hostile to Israel lately, that five Norwegian politicians give Obama this totally undeserved award for his perceived animosity toward Israel would not surprise me a bit.

Criticizing the brutal conducts of the Israeli government is not the same as being "extremely hostile to Israel". In fact, it's the other way around; ever since Scandinavian politicians in general started to open their eyes to Israels apartheid-like treatment of people under their occupation, Israel has been overreacting completely to every word out of Scandinavia. It's like their trying to silence us by guilt and fear. Hasn't worked so far, and I bet you're hating it!

But let's be fair and see it for what it is. The prize was not awarded based on the will of the people (in fact the entire world is shocked and in disbelief), or the world's opinion, it was based on the views of five Norwegian politicians elected by ultra-leftist, socialist Norwegian parliament. Who cares? Besides they shot themselves in the foot by completely cheapening the award.

Wrong. Of the 169 members of parliament, about 82 (very close to half) belong to the right. It's the sitting government that's left-leaning (mostly Labour Party, with support from the small socialist party and center party (which is right to Labour Party)), not the parliament.

The prize has got very little or nothing to do with Israel. Alfred Nobel, in his own words, said the award should be given "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

Although the entire world expects to see results that will completely trivialize his present accomplishments, let's take a look at what Obama actually has done:

* Reached out to the Muslim world and completely changed their view on the USA. Obviously not Taliban or Al Qaida, but they aren't the target of this policy either. USA went from being a despised nation to the most admired nation on the planet: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091005/lf_nm_life/us_usa_status

* Restarted the relationship with Russia and removed the plans for a rocket shield which would almost certainly throw the US and Russia back into a cold war-like state.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1009/p06s13-woeu.html

* Initiated efforts to rid the world of nuclear weapons. Although it's highly ambitious, and might not give results within the first few decades, the fact that the leader of the free world and the president of the only super power is doing it, will most probably have some impact.

Aside from this, he has also stopped Israel from attacking Iran (though Bush also did this), which would most certainly carry with it a brutal war, while at the same time staying on top of their nuclear program AND engaging aggressively in diplomatic negotiations that are already giving fruits: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/09/26/UPI-NewsTrack-TopNews/UPI-42961253998800/

Then there's the climate, talks with North Korea, etc. All in all, everything he's doing is still work in progress. And yet, if he dies today, he will be the person who has done most for peace the past year.

So giving him the prize was not wrong. If it where up to me, I would not have given him the prize this year, simply because he is a president and an award like this is doomed to bring a barrage of controversy that might* ultimately hurt him rather than strengthen him, but Nobel would definitely approve.

*The prize might also strengthen him and rally support for his causes, as soon as the controversies settle. Time will tell.

 

[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:[/B]

Arafat got the prize because he denounced terrorism and went into peaceful negotiations
And that's why I said that this award to Obama is even more pathetic than the award to terrorist number 1 on the planet at the time with rivers of jewish blood on his hands.

Criticizing the brutal conducts of the Israeli government is not the same as being "extremely hostile to Israel".
I agree and that's why I did not say that Norway "criticizes brutal...blah blah blah", that's why I said that Norway has been extremely hostile to Israel lately.

Wrong. Of the 169 members of parliament, about 82 (very close to half) belong to the right. It's the sitting government that's left-leaning (mostly Labour Party, with support from the small socialist party and center party (which is right to Labour Party)), not the parliament.
Yeah, but your "conservative" parties are to the left of Ralph Nader. Who do you think you're kidding.

The prize has got very little or nothing to do with Israel.
So why are you telling this to me, tell this to the clown who started this thread and claimed that it was all about Zionsism.

 

[destroyer]

Quote from a_person:

Arafat got the prize because he denounced terrorism and went into peaceful negotiations
And that's why I said that this award to Obama is even more pathetic than the award to terrorist number 1 on the planet at the time with rivers of jewish blood on his hands.

Rabin and Peres too had backgrounds in terrorist organizations. Look up the bodycounts for each side, and you'll see that if Arafat had "rivers of jewish blood on his hands", Rabin and Peres had oceans of blood on theirs.

Criticizing the brutal conducts of the Israeli government is not the same as being "extremely hostile to Israel".
I agree and that's why I did not say that Norway "criticizes brutal...blah blah blah", that's why I said that Norway has been extremely hostile to Israel lately.

Taking a stand against oppression might very well be seen as equal to being "extremely hostile to Israel". That doesn't mean we're in the wrong though, it means Israel needs to stop the oppression.

Wrong. Of the 169 members of parliament, about 82 (very close to half) belong to the right. It's the sitting government that's left-leaning (mostly Labour Party, with support from the small socialist party and center party (which is right to Labour Party)), not the parliament.
Yeah, but your "conservative" parties are to the left of Ralph Nader. Who do you think you're kidding.

Evidently not anyone with a lot of knowledge about Norwegian politics. The largest party on the right, the progressive party (41 mandates) are farther to the right than a lot of republicans. They adopt policies from think tanks like the Ayn Rand Institute and they sometimes seem to love Israel more than Norway. Fortunately, aside from the conservative party, no one else on the right want's to cooperate with them, so we're not in real danger of having them in government for now. But they do constitute a significant amount of the parliament, which elected the five members of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee.

The prize has got very little or nothing to do with Israel.
So why are you telling this to me, tell this to the clown who started this thread and claimed that it was all about Zionsism.

Because you're the one moaning about Israel.

 

[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:

Rabin and Peres too had backgrounds in terrorist organizations. Look up the bodycounts for each side, and you'll see that if Arafat had "rivers of jewish blood on his hands", Rabin and Peres had oceans of blood on theirs.
LOL, so according to your logic the Norwegians awarded the Nobel peace prize to a bunch of murderers. And now you awarded it to Obama who has done nothing yet. Way to go guys, do you ever wonder why you're not taken seriously?

Taking a stand against oppression
You'd probably have more credibility if you took a stand against years of rocket attacks, terrorism, intifadas, riots. But your voices were not heard and your actions were non-existent. Israel is damned if it does and dead if it does not. "Taking a stand against oppression" when rockets are falling not on your but on someone else's houses and playgrounds is a manifestation of ignorance, pathetic self-righeousness and intellectual dishonesty.

Evidently not anyone with a lot of knowledge about Norwegian politics.
true, no one gives a shit. You'll freeze to death there and no one will notice. You've had less nobel prize winners in the last 60 years than tiny, besieged Israel. Your only claim to fame is oil.

The largest party on the right, the progressive party (41 mandates) are farther to the right than a lot of republicans. They adopt policies from think tanks like the Ayn Rand Institute and they sometimes seem to love Israel more than Norway. Fortunately, aside from the conservative party, no one else on the right want's to cooperate with them, so we're not in real danger of having them in government for now. But they do constitute a significant amount of the parliament, which elected the five members of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee.
So we agree that the five members of the Nobel prize committee were elected by one of the most left-wing if not socialist parliaments on the planet. That you have a few fringe parties with no real influence makes absolutely no difference.

Because you're the one moaning about Israel.
Oh, of course, you would not attack any Jew or Israel hating clown like the OP moaning against Israel all day long, Brothers in arms, I understand.

 

[destroyer]

Interesting reaction indeed, I must have struck a nerve.

Quote from a_person:
Rabin and Peres too had backgrounds in terrorist organizations. Look up the bodycounts for each side, and you'll see that if Arafat had "rivers of jewish blood on his hands", Rabin and Peres had oceans of blood on theirs.
LOL, so according to your logic the Norwegians awarded the Nobel peace prize to a bunch of murderers. And now you awarded it to Obama who has done nothing yet. Way to go guys, do you ever wonder why you're not taken seriously?

What I'm saying is, the Nobel peace prize was awarded to a bunch of fighters who laid down their guns and started peaceful negotiations, like Nelson Mandela did. Except it didn't work out the way we had hoped; Opposition to peace in Israel was too great. The expansion of settlements continued, Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli right-winger and the whole Oslo Accords was revealed to have been doomed from the get-go, due to lack of support amongst the Israeli population.

But the prize was awarded correctly, in the spirit of Nobel.

Taking a stand against oppression
You'd probably have more credibility if you took a stand against years of rocket attacks, terrorism, intifadas, riots. But your voices were not heard and your actions were non-existent. Israel is damned if it does and dead if it does not. "Taking a stand against oppression" when rockets are falling not on your but on someone else's houses and playgrounds is a manifestation of ignorance, pathetic self-righeousness and intellectual dishonesty.

Norway has always taken a stand against rocket attacks against Israel as well. So why have you not noticed this? I'll tell you why.

Your rocket attacks against houses and playgrounds are a thousand times more devastating than that of the terrorists', and the IDF has killed thousands of children more. It is therefor only logical that you'll hear us more often telling you to take it easy, than your enemies.

What would you have us do? Keep count of how many times we criticize the Palestinians, and never allow ourselves to comment on your actions unless we also have something to say about the Palestinians? So basically, if the Palestinians attack you and you attack them back, it's OK to comment on it, but if you just attack them for nothing, we better shut up?

Evidently not anyone with a lot of knowledge about Norwegian politics.
true, no one gives a shit. You'll freeze to death there and no one will notice. You've had less nobel prize winners in the last 60 years than tiny, besieged Israel. Your only claim to fame is oil.

That wasn't very polite. We (as in Scandinavia) are the ones giving out the prizes, it wouldn't look too good if we gave most of them to ourselves now, would it? This is a pissing contest we simply cannot engage in.

Because you're the one moaning about Israel.
Oh, of course, you would not attack any Jew or Israel hating clown like the OP moaning against Israel all day long, Brothers in arms, I understand.

I disagree with the OP on the notion that Obama got the award because of his stand against Israeli occupation and settlement expansion. However, he didn't lie, he simply gave his opinion. You dragged me into this by whining about Norwegian hostility towards Israel, which is a misguided notion at best.

 

[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:[/B]

Except it didn't work out the way we had hoped; Opposition to peace in Israel was too great. The expansion of settlements continued, Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli right-winger and the whole Oslo Accords was revealed to have been doomed from the get-go, due to lack of support amongst the Israeli population.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! If anyone had any doubts about the hostility toward Israel this paragraph should completely eliminate them. It's all about the "Opposition to peace in Israel" (but not in Hamas, not in the Arab world, not among palestinians), "lack of support among the israeli population" (but not among arab governments, the arab street, the muslim world, the palestinian street). It's all about big bad Israel that does not want to make peace with poor innocent peace-loving arabs. But oh no, it's not hostility, it's merely fair criticism of big bad, ugly, militant, imperialistic, oppressive zionist regime. LOL


Norway has always taken a stand against rocket attacks against Israel as well. So why have you not noticed this?
Like what? What specifically have you ever done to stop those attacks? Where were you between 2005 and 2009 when Israel withdrew from Gaza and rockets were falling on Israeli towns every single day?

We (as in Scandinavia) are the ones giving out the prizes, it wouldn't look too good if we gave most of them to ourselves now, would it?
Fair enough. Touche. When I am wrong - I am wrong, I did not think of that and it was not a fair comparison. Still the level of scientific and technological research in Scandinavia is relatively sub-standard compared to western europe, the US, Israel and a few other western countries.

I disagree with the OP on the notion that Obama got the award because of his stand against Israeli occupation and settlement expansion.
Really? But you said nothing of course. Just like you claim to disagree with Israel's enemies but keep silent and do absolutely nothing when they murder Israeli civilians. On the other hand when Israel retaliates (or when I rebuke the OP's absurd claims) you don't feel like you need to hold back your righteous indignation.

 

[Gummivogel]

we've seen this before


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