read this and weep you idiot free market geeks

[ggreggerh]

Quote from Capablanca:

Thank you for the comment. I find it amusing though to see how far they can stretch their bizarre theories and still maintain a straight face without realizing how ridiculous they are sounding.

Rothschild Quotes

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws."
- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

Rothschild Quotes

"Even though they had a registered agent in the United States ... it was extremely advantageous to them to have an American representative who was not known as a Rothschild agent. (The Rothschilds) preferred to operate anonymously in the United States behind the facade of J. P. Morgan and Company."
- Eustace Mullins

Rothschild Quotes

"Someone was needed as a cover (for the Rothschild family). Who better than J. Pierpont Morgan, a solid, Protestant exemplar of capitalism able to trace his family back to pre-Revolutionary times?"
- George Wheeler

Quotes on Rothschild

"Morgan's activities in 1895-1896 in selling U.S. gold bonds in Europe were based on his alliance with the House of Rothschild."
- Gabriel Kolko

Rothschild Quotes

"They had the crown heads of Europe in debt to them and this included the Black Nobility dynasty, the Hapsburgs, who ruled the Holy Roman Empire for 600 years. The Rothschilds also took control of the Bank of England. If there was a war, the Rothschilds were behind the scenes, creating the conflict and funding both sides."
- David Icke

Quotes on Rothschild

… international bankers (such as the Rothschilds) are a dark crew of financial pirates who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket... They prey upon the people of these United States."
- Congressman Louis T. McFadden

Rothschild Quotes

"The possibilities are obvious that a major portion of the wealth and power of the Morgan firm was, and always had been, merely the wealth and power of the Rothschilds who had raised it up in the beginning and who sustained it through its entire existence."
- G. Edward Griffin

Quotes on Rothschild

"History reveals that the Rothschilds were heavily involved in financing both sides in the Civil War. Lincoln put a damper on their activities when, in 1862 and 1863, he refused to pay the exorbitant rates of interest demanded by the Rothschilds and issued constitutionally-authorized, interest-free United States notes. For this and other acts of patriotism Lincoln was shot down in cold-blood by John Wilkes Booth on April 14, 1865, just five days after Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomattox Court House, Virginia."
- The Rothschild Dynasty – Plan of Destruction

Rothschild Quotes

"From the earliest days, the Rothschilds appreciated the importance of proximity to politicians, the men who determined not only the extent of budget deficits but also the domestic and foreign policies. Rothschild influence extended to royalty as well. Nathan first came into contact with British royalty thanks to his father's purchase of outstanding debts owed by George, Prince Regent - later King George IV - and his brothers."
- Niall Ferguson

Rothschild Quotes

Rockefeller and Morgan used Rothschild money to build vast empires which controlled banking, business, oil, steel, etc., and ran the United States economy in the way the Oppenheimers do in South Africa."
- David Icke

Rothschild Quotes

"Nathan Rothschild was able to brag later chat in the 17 years he had been in England he had increased his original 20,000 pounds stake given to him by his father by 2,500 times, i.e. to 50,000,000 - a truly vast sum at that time, comparable in purchasing power to billions of U.S. dollars today."
- Unknown Rothschild investigator

Rothschild Quotes

"They may have held citizenship in the country of their residence, but patriotism was beyond their comprehension. They were also very bright, if not cunning, and these combined traits made them the role model of the cool pragmatists who dominate the political and financial world of today."
- G. Edward Griffin

Rothschild Quotes

"The "Supreme World Council" is already set up as a prototype of the one that will rule when the NWO comes into being. It meets on a regular basis to discuss finances, direction, policy, etc. and to problem-solve difficulties that come up. Once again, these leaders are heads in the financial world, OLD banking money. The Rothschild family in England, and in France, have ruling seats. A descendant of the Hapsburg dynasty has a generational seat. A descendant of the ruling families of England and France have a generational seat. The Rockefeller family in the U.S. holds a seat."
- Illuminati Defector Details Pervasive Conspiracy

 

[IluvVol]

thats your problem, you ask rethorical questions and make claims along the line with some others that I could counter with one single example. Your claims lack any solid back up while I have shown several examples that clearly lend support to my arguments. I have clearly shown examples where bubbles were not fueled because of ample money supply. I dont understand where some of those guys try to get to with their criticism of the FED.

You seem agitated because you obviously must have traded pretty horribly the past few weeks and I feel sorry for you but I am happy people like you exist. Nonetheless, good luck to you!!!

Quote from telozo:

I asked a rhetorical question you moron. No need the spread your wisdom on us. Don't you see that everyone, save a few, is rather amused by your persistence in proving how ignorant, selfish and down right stupid you are? No one is the keeper of the absolute truth, so stop trying.

 

[IluvVol]

lol, I traded liquid derivatives for more than a decade on the insitutional side, believe me you make me smile enough when I hear your comments, you almost sound like one of those grad school know-it-alls when searching for their first jobs, lol.

About your comments, you would have said the same thing would FF have been at 3% or 20% at the Nasdaq top, so what do you try to prove? The different short term rates during all the past bubbles only proves my point that people who push prices up into ever higher spheres DO NOT CARE about where interests rates are. If I have a strong conviction that the asset I buy today will be worth 50% more next year then I dont care whether interest rates are at 1,2,5,10, or even 15-20%. How hard is this to get?

The dollar is low? Hmm the dollar is now where it has made lows throughout most of the 1H of the 90s (DXY Index) and is about 8-10% away where it has traded on average throughout most of the 90s before the internet bubble sucked a lot of investors into the U.S. You may wanna take another look at the dollar since March08

Quote from achilles28:

You don't even know what money supply is. Do you?

FED rates at Nasdaq top were 6%+

Considering our entire asset-base (equities, stocks, bonds, commodities) is totally over-priced via artificially low interest rates, 6-8% is about all our markets can handle until they dump.

Look what happened in 2006. Fed rates were up to ~5% and what did the DOW do? Almost tanked, thanks to the Plunge Protection Team.

Thats how weak and devalued our dollar is. Inflation has been priced into everything.

If we ever see a return to real interest rates around 6-8%. This whole thing is going to go down harder than the titanic.

Cheap money built the new economy and the only thing that can sustain it is cheaper money. Until the FED's got nothing left but 50 basis points and we do Japan or tank regardless.

ASSET INFLATION.

 

[IluvVol]

Excuse me? Dont turn around my words and put words in my mouth I never used. I never criticised fundamental traders (although they would have gotten killed this year, nothing has to do with fundamentals right now whatsoever). I dont need to google Jim, lol (you are too funny). I met him several times and spoke to him as well. I respect him a lot but if I can give you a small word of advise: I would not believe everything he says about his positions that he mentiones on TV, haha. For example, I know from confirmed sources that are very close to him that he HAS NOT bought into ANY chinese airlines recently. You are welcome to verify this by looking at the insitutional holdings of ANY chinese listed airline company.

You think you are so smart but you obviously have taken a lot of others comments for your own and you have not even verified whether what they say is actually true.

By the way, you may lack the definition of a real trader. We have a host of economists working for us (and honestly most of my colleages share into the opinion that most of the econ research from sell side firms is pretty worthless, and please do not claim you know more than them). Our job is to take risk and to manage this risk well, ending up in the end with hopefully making positive expectation bets most of the time.

Quote from achilles28:

You couldn't be more ignorant, "Mate".

Fundamental traders make a killing and will continue to do so.

Because they understand a Bigger Picture smaller minds can't grasp.

google Jim Rogers. He's been long commodities, short dollar, and short US investment and commercial banks since the '05. I suppose a moving-average cross over trader like you would chalk that up to "dumb luck", huh??

You want to close your eyes to a larger world you don't understand, by all means.

Past doesn't predict the future?

Only when a trader has no grasp of economics.

 

[IluvVol]

...you gotta be joking. Who enjoys low rates? Most Americans would still live in rented homes with rates in the 15-20% region, the only reason people could afford to build and buy was low rates. Now dont get me wrong, I dont promote and think the excesses of the past couple years were good. But clearly the small man has participated in low interest rates. Secondly, what you mean with CORPORATE America enjoyed low rates? Corporate America is not made up of a bunch of high rolling executives. I AGAIN dont get your point here.

Rates are an asset class like every other. If you think rates are or mispriced and if you are a stern believer in fundamentals why did and dont you take positions of those "mispricings". Well I know why you did not because you would have burned your mouth very badly. It may be good to put your positions to where your mouth is and if you indeed did so then you should at least admit instead of throwing around with funny ideas from your class in school.

Quote from achilles28:

It is Criminal to confiscate 50% of the Nations savings every 10 years so Bankers and Corporate America (primarily) can enjoy low rates.

 

[Capablanca]

Quote from achilles28:

Deflation promotes savings. And savings is investment.

In a deflationary system, money appreciates over time so people have more incentive to save and invest their dollars in dollar-returning assets as opposed to physical goods that quickly loose value. This transfers private wealth to capital markets for productive use while maintaining the value of currency throughout.

Tell this to the Japanese who experienced a lost decade of no growth despite their impressive savings rate. Savings is not the same as investment, it would be akin to saying supply is demand. There is a conceptual difference.

Quote from achilles28:

In inflationary systems, money depreciates over time. So the preference is towards immediate consumption to convert depreciating dollars into hard assets before the value of currency is lost.

Simplistic explanation. You fail to recognize that conversion into assets you speak of includes investment in the means of production.

It is generally accepted that a state of low inflation is the preferred and most benign state for an economy.

Quote from achilles28:
Inflate at 4% a year - compounded - and HALF the Country's saved wealth is wiped out from inflation. People know this and splurge accordingly.

The difference in either system is:

1) the origination of capital

2) the value of the currency.


Under the current system (inflationary), the FED steals value from dollar holders surreptitiously via the inflation tax and passes on that newly printed money in the form of low interest rates for use in capital markets. Not only is the act non-consensual, but debases and robs dollar-holders and savers of their wealth. It is Criminal to confiscate 50% of the Nations savings every 10 years so Bankers and Corporate America (primarily) can enjoy low rates.

I must now question if you know what interest rates are for.

Quote from achilles28:
Under a deflationary system, there is no Federal Reserve to steal wealth, create booms and busts, and set artificial rates. Under a deflationary system (read: hard money), private wealth is diverted to capital markets via open participation (buyers and sellers) who allocate capital, risk and rates of return (interest rates), accordingly. This way, the value and integrity of the dollar is not only preserved but appreciates over time. And then its the Free Market - not the FED - who determines when, how and how much private wealth flows to capital markets to maintain equilibrium.

There is no expansion of money supply by unGodly amounts under a hard money (deflationary) system. Therefore, all this crap we're currently experiencing wouldn't happen. Mortgages at 1% and banks leveraged 30-to-1 in a hard money (non fractional reserve) system, can't and wouldn't exist.

The first step is understand that money is instrumental to the Massive Long Term bubbles (and crashes) that play out. Had this Bubble ended in a Real Market Crash where your Parents (and mine, and everyone elses), actually lost their 401K and entire lifes savings, you'd be singing a very different tune about the "virtues" of fiat money systems and fractional reserve lending.

Cause then half the Country would be insolvent and literally fucked from the excesses created by FED Banks, who control the FED.

So what is an example of this miraculous hard money deflationary system you talk of? The gold standard? Your own earlier example showed how that is no defense against debasement. As long as there is a government necessary to stand behind a currency to guarantee it, there is a government there to manipulate it. Should the government not take charge other forces will. Do you want your monetary policy subject to the whims of mining firms in South Africa or Australia? In case of a situation where it is in the nation's interest to expand money supply---a war for example or a depression environment there is less flexibility to address the issue. But I guess you see no benefit to reducing the unemployment rate?

Quote from achilles28:
Why do you insist pushing half-baked notions about what I believe or don't?

Its your lack of understanding here thats the problem. Not mine.

Doesn't seem like it.

Quote from achilles28:
Undiluted bond or stock purchases make no difference to the total money supply. When a company issues a bond, and I buy it, money is transferred. Money supply does not change so currency value is not lost.

I was making an analogous comparison and illustrating similar principles involved. It seems to have gone over your head.

Quote from achilles28:
Dilution is similar to what the FED does. Yes. But investors are consensual participants in that transaction, aren't they? They know when they buy common or subordinated debt, they might get diluted. Thats consensual risk.

Inflation is not consensual. If the American Public knew the Federal Reserve robbed their savings to the tune of 50%, per decade, do you think there'd be a FED around tomorrow? HELL NO.

People can make an issue out of it and vote for politicians who take the issue seriously. Alternatively they can convert their money into a different currency or buy assets that have potential to appreciate faster than inflation.

Quote from achilles28:
You know what Henry Ford (Yes, father of the Model-T) said about our Fractional Reserve Banking System?

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. "

There are people who have already done that. They were called communists.

Quote from achilles28:
No understanding?

I feel like I'm talking to Simple Jack, here.

By golly! That's how I feel too.

 

[Mecro]

Quote from Capablanca:

Please explain all the booms and busts that occurred before the Fed was created.

Name some. While you are at it, check out the pre-cursors to the Fed and the strange coincidence that they happened to be active during the booms & busts.

 

[Capablanca]

Quote from Mecro:

Name some. While you are at it, check out the pre-cursors to the Fed and the strange coincidence that they happened to be active during the booms & busts.

Long Depression 1870s to 1890s.