read this and weep you idiot free market geeks

[Capablanca]

Quote from achilles28:

You obviously haven't read the Congressional report, the litany of Founders tirades against Central Banking, or understand, at a fundamental level, why fiat banking is inherently corrupt.

Apparently you have no clue why fiat money has been adopted by every government on the face of the world.

Quote from achilles28:
Were you aware European Monarchies would dictate new coinage every few years and debase privately-held gold or silver coins with lead or some other cheap metal, and keep - and spend - the difference?

This shit has been going on for a very long, long time.

Indeed it has been going on for a very long time which makes me wonder why you think the Fed should be blamed for everything since it only came into being in the last century or even fiat money since as you show with your example any kind of money can be debased. Again as I said earlier the logical conclusion of your line of argument is for a barter system.

Quote from achilles28:

Do you even know what inflation is or how its created???

Are you a trader?

Sure! Now let me ask you some questions. Do you know what the multiplier is? Do you know what capitalism is? Are you an economist?

By the way I do not disagree with the opinion that the Fed was irresponsible in its lax monetary policy, but I disagree with the assertion that things would be better without the Fed. The Fed is a tool and as with all tools it can be used for good or bad.

 

[heypa]

It's all the American peoples fault. They just don't save enough.Bull crap. The American people were all savers until enough of them realized that the American Govt was ripping them off by inflating their dollars ( and taxing their gains) so that the dollars when spent bought less than they could have if spent rather than saved.
Yes sir friend gullible . Put your money in the bank so that they may make money through the fraction reserve system while the govt rips you off and taxes your meager gains..
Also I believe that the only reason that public companies were created was to rip off the gullible public.We the public hold so few shares directly that we can exert very little control.
They should clearly identify every bit of financial information as an advertisement!

 

[IluvVol]

lol, so exactly what pushed the prices of certain tulips up into the millions? Why would the willingness of some to spend such amounts on a tulip bulb have ANYTHING to do with the amount of money in circulation??? The only reason some spent such amount was their hope to sell those at ever higher prices until the bubble burst, NOTHING ELSE. Dude, you seem to be having spent too many of your years in your ivory tower on your PhD dissertation. I trade the markets on a daily basis for an insitutional outlet and let me tell you that prices are determined by supply and demand. There is only one single market where the price is determined by the supply and demand of money and therefore indirectly by the expectation of future liquidity of money in circulation and that is the simple INTEREREST RATE. I never denied that relationships exist but prices are directly impacted by supply and demand and this by peoples expectations of future prices, nothing more than that.

You make it way to complicated to fit everything into your theoretical framework.

Quote from achilles28:

Wrong.

Leverage fuels *and* causes bubbles.

Tulip Mania is a perfect example of excess liquidity causing bubbles.

The Netherlands "Free coinage" and Bank of Amsterdam's stability created an influx of specie (gold and silver) into the Netherlands in the early 1600's.

By 1638, the Netherland Mint had coined 1800% more gold and 800% more silver than was in circulation, 10 years earlier.

That doesn't sound like a money bubble!!

Enjoy

http://mises.org/story/2564


btw, please show us any bubble that wasn't first preceded by a huge run-up in money supply.

 

[IluvVol]

No, I and we dont, go figure. We spend our time to share ideas about trades that make money today. You have the right and seem to have already decided that you like to stick to the past which is your good right. I suggest you look after another forum to discuss your theories and ideas about the past. Just a hint because I dont think you get a lot of people here to share into your ideas and rather waste your and our time.

Quote from achilles28:

Go look it up for yourself.

And while you're at it, do us the favor and explain why Jefferson, Jackson and Lincoln railed against, what you call, a "banking conspiracy theory".

Or do you not read the Founders Writings either?

Wouldn't be surprised......

 

[IluvVol]

rates were a lot higher (than 1%) during and towards the end of the internet bubble and nothing prevented yahoo and juniper networks and the amazons to go through the roof. Your theories are completely made of thin air and are taken apart with one single counter-example. Now go back and work on your dissertation.

Quote from achilles28:

Nobody has a monopoly on credit?

Except the Federal Reserve who prints the money.

But prove us all wrong and start using your own bills of credit at the local grocery store, and see what happens...






Wow. When you boil it down in such simple (minded) terms, I guess you're right!

FED funds at 1% for 2 years certainly had nothing to do with it.

Ever notice how bubbles don't form when rates are 10%+ ?

Every bubble was the result of loose credit.

I suggest doing some research.

 

[IluvVol]

you certainly are not mate. You are a sorry man who has got an axe to grind and cannot accept it that some executives took home millions despite having made mistakes. Traders leave it up to guys like you to now spend their sleepless nights over figuring out who to blame for all this mess. You know how much I care who is responsible? Do you know how much the market cares how high or low rates were last year? I tell you what we care about. I care about how the market prices the next rate cut and I will try to profit from my view. THe market could not care less about how high you think rates should be, LOL.

In the same way the market did not care how terrible you think the bailout package would be. The markets of the previous couple days have presented tremendeous opportunities to profit to those who paid attention to the current and future instead of expressing their anger. I made more money the past two weeks than the whole year till then combined. Looking into the past does not help you whatsoever. Do you think I agree with the political decisions that have been made in the past one or two years? Heck, nooooo.......;-)

Quote from achilles28:

You obviously haven't read the Congressional report, the litany of Founders tirades against Central Banking, or understand, at a fundamental level, why fiat banking is inherently corrupt.

Were you even aware that European Goldsmiths would lend out (or spend) more "demand notes" than they held in physical gold in their vaults?

Thats the root of fractional reserve banking and how the Rothschilds and other European banking dynasties came to be.

Were you aware European Monarchies would dictate new coinage every few years and debase privately-held gold or silver coins with lead or some other cheap metal, and keep - and spend - the difference?

This shit has been going on for a very long, long time.

Do you even know what inflation is or how its created???

Are you a trader?

 

[IluvVol]

because senior management lied about their books. All who had a look at the books in order to evaluate a possible purchase ran away as fast as they could. When clients pull all their money and counterparties stop trading with a broker then the game is over. Simple loss of confidence in being able to make it. No credit downgrade needed. BS and Leh could have functioned days if not weeks without any additional aid longer would clients and counterparties not have pulled the plug.

Quote from telozo:

OK, it's a liquidity crisis. I just have one question: why counterparties lost confidence in LEH, if everything else was so dandy?

 

[Pita]

Quote from IluvVol:

you certainly are not mate. You are a sorry man who has got an axe to grind and cannot accept it that some executives took home millions despite having made mistakes. Traders leave it up to guys like you to now spend their sleepless nights over figuring out who to blame for all this mess. You know how much I care who is responsible? Do you know how much the market cares how high or low rates were last year? I tell you what we care about. I care about how the market prices the next rate cut and I will try to profit from my view. THe market could not care less about how high you think rates should be, LOL.

In the same way the market did not care how terrible you think the bailout package would be. The markets of the previous couple days have presented tremendeous opportunities to profit to those who paid attention to the current and future instead of expressing their anger. I made more money the past two weeks than the whole year till then combined. Looking into the past does not help you whatsoever. Do you think I agree with the political decisions that have been made in the past one or two years? Heck, nooooo.......;-)

IluvVol I really hate to make offensive comments especially when it is all anonymous but they way you seemingly think stamps you as a brainwashed shortsighted fool who cannot see further than the distance from your nose to the screen. I am sure your big trade is out there waiting for you offering the necessary wake up call to put things into the right perspective.

 

[IluvVol]

am way past that big one, fortunately since my early days I then decided to follow the market action only and not people who need to understand everything what happened and why. I happily leave this to the historians.

And what is your contribution here? Did someone hurt you?

Quote from Pita:

IluvVol I really hate to make offensive comments especially when it is all anonymous but they way you seemingly think stamps you as a brainwashed shortsighted fool who cannot see further than the distance from your nose to the screen. I am sure your big trade is out there waiting for you offering the necessary wake up call to put things into the right perspective.

 

[Pita]

Quote from IluvVol:

am way past that big one, fortunately since my early days I then decided to follow the market action only and not people who need to understand everything what happened and why. I happily leave this to the historians.

And what is your contribution here? Did someone hurt you?

If you dont need to understand what happened and why then explain why you are critizising those who do know it.
Not that somebody hurt me, don't worry. You sound selfish and reckless while widespreading brainwashed thoughts. I know in this business everyone is alone and by himself and faces psychological conversions on that way. You are my colleague somehow and really I do not intend to offend you. You are there to take and profit instead of to get and receive and therewith your big trade is in front of you and not behind, just wait. Thats all I wanted to say and so I did.