Your sole defense to fall back on with the significant number of staff deaths is "prove they go it at school". SAD!
Re-opening Schools in the era of COVID
- Thread starter gwb-trading
- Start date
Your sole defense to fall back on with the significant number of staff deaths is "prove they go it at school". SAD!
No, my sole defense is that COVID is essentially harmless (statistically) to children AND that it is no more dangerous to adults in school than anywhere else. I have data proving this insofar as children go. Thus, the overwhelming negatives of NOT going to school are infinitely more important than the "possible, unproven, shrieking" of fear porn addicts like you.
That's my defense in a nutshell. You have no data. Just emotion. I have data. Granted, my data is incomplete, but I'm not trying to prove that there is danger. You are. So the burden of proof is on you.
Suck on it, and let me know if you ever get something other than tears of rage.
Let's outline the known facts....
- Young children (elementary school) spread COVID at 50% the rate that adults do.
- Older children (high school) spread COVID just as much as adults do.
- When the local community prevalence of COVID is high then schools serve as a significant source of spreading the disease.
- Schools can be safely opened when proper social distancing, cleaning, and mask use is in place. However most school districts in the U.S. are not following proper guidelines.
- European countries have successfully demonstrated the procedures needed to keep schools open for long periods of time (as opposed to have students come in and close schools three weeks later with many COVID cases). The U.S. should follow their lead.
- One important requirement demonstrated in Europe is that schools should not be open when local community spread is high.
- Most contact sports at schools must be stopped to reduce COVID spread. Individual and some team sports can continue with safety protocols in place.
- Having schools open for in-building education is better for student learning and mental health.
- In-school learning is most important for Pre-K, K-3 students when social learning and in-person instruction is crucial at these young ages. Pre-K, K-3 students should be prioritized for in-building learning first.
- Most teachers would prefer to teach in person but over 70% will not do so voluntarily if they do not feel safe.
- Most schools in the U.S. that had to stop in-building learning (typically in less than 5 weeks) had to do so because their staff COVID levels quickly rose to a level where they could not man the classrooms (and subs are impossible to find).
- Schools generally did not close due to COVID breakouts among students (because most school districts in the U.S. don't really seem to care how many students got it). They had to close due to staff infections -- which led to teachers not being allowed in the school.
- Unlike Europe -- most schools in the U.S. are already overcrowded. Most will need to go to a hybrid model to maintain social distancing.
All of these points above are documented in articles and studies in this thread - many with supporting data.
If the U.S. wants to open schools then the first step is for the CDC to provide a safety plan that all schools must follow.
Let's outline the suppositions you are making with little to no sources.
You quote one study in Switzerland that says closing schools was one factor in reducing spread. One factor. In Switzerland. One time.
You don't get to tell us when schools can be safely opened. Municipalities will determine when it is right to do so. You aren't the school police.
Yes, European countries have done wonders for their lockdowns and shutdowns. And their economy and students are suffering because of it. And they have horrible COVID numbers, too. Well done!
Right. Keep schools closed when community spread is high. Keep open Home Depot, Walmart and all other big box stores. COVID ignores them. Dope.
Since kids are not at risk from COVID, this would appear to be bullshit. Unless, of course, you have statistics showing how players on schools sports teams die from COVID (you don't have this).
Yes. It is. So stop spreading fear porn.
All students should be sent back to school because there isn't enough risk at all to justify stupid measures. Like we have in Florida. Give parents the choice.
There are no issues here in Florida with teachers returning to school. Despite us having the worst governor on planet earth (from your perspective). All classes are manned.
Funny how that hasn't happened at most Florida schools (yes there are some exceptions).
Again, not here in Florida - with some noted exceptions. We can do a calc on the percentage of affected schools if you would like. I don't think you would like the answer to that equation.
So go to a hybrid model. But open the schools and stop the fear porn.
Most of these points are your opinions. End of story.
You can say anything you want. This doesn't make it real or true.
"When the local community prevalence of COVID is high then schools serve as a significant source of spreading the disease."
You quote one study in Switzerland that says closing schools was one factor in reducing spread. One factor. In Switzerland. One time.
"Schools can be safely opened when proper social distancing, cleaning, and mask use is in place. However most school districts in the U.S. are not following proper guidelines."
You don't get to tell us when schools can be safely opened. Municipalities will determine when it is right to do so. You aren't the school police.
"European countries have successfully demonstrated the procedures needed to keep schools open for long periods of time (as opposed to have students come in and close schools three weeks later with many COVID cases). The U.S. should follow their lead."
Yes, European countries have done wonders for their lockdowns and shutdowns. And their economy and students are suffering because of it. And they have horrible COVID numbers, too. Well done!
"One important requirement demonstrated in Europe is that schools should not be open when local community spread is high."
Right. Keep schools closed when community spread is high. Keep open Home Depot, Walmart and all other big box stores. COVID ignores them. Dope.
"Most contact sports at schools must be stopped to reduce COVID spread. Individual and some team sports can continue with safety protocols in place."
Since kids are not at risk from COVID, this would appear to be bullshit. Unless, of course, you have statistics showing how players on schools sports teams die from COVID (you don't have this).
"Having schools open for in-building education is better for student learning and mental health."
Yes. It is. So stop spreading fear porn.
"In-school learning is most important for Pre-K, K-3 students when social learning and in-person instruction is crucial at these young ages. Pre-K, K-3 students should be prioritized for in-building learning first."
All students should be sent back to school because there isn't enough risk at all to justify stupid measures. Like we have in Florida. Give parents the choice.
"Most teachers would prefer to teach in person but over 70% will not do so voluntarily if they do not feel safe."
There are no issues here in Florida with teachers returning to school. Despite us having the worst governor on planet earth (from your perspective). All classes are manned.
"Most schools in the U.S. that had to stop in-building learning (typically in less than 5 weeks) had to do so because their staff COVID levels quickly rose to a level where they could not man the classrooms (and subs are impossible to find). "
Funny how that hasn't happened at most Florida schools (yes there are some exceptions).
"Schools generally did not close due to COVID breakouts among students (because most school districts in the U.S. don't really seem to care how many students got it). They had to close due to staff infections -- which led to teachers not being allowed in the school."
Again, not here in Florida - with some noted exceptions. We can do a calc on the percentage of affected schools if you would like. I don't think you would like the answer to that equation.
"Unlike Europe -- most schools in the U.S. are already overcrowded. Most will need to go to a hybrid model to maintain social distancing."
So go to a hybrid model. But open the schools and stop the fear porn.
"All of these points above are documented in articles and studies in this thread - many with supporting data."
Most of these points are your opinions. End of story.
You can say anything you want. This doesn't make it real or true.
Obviously you and I disagree on these points. My points are backed by facts and information found in this thread.
Let's selection one of your more inane assertions.... "Right. Keep schools closed when community spread is high. Keep open Home Depot, Walmart and all other big box stores. COVID ignores them. Dope."
Seeing that the amount of time you are exposed to an infected person with COVID is a significant factor and most people are in the store for under 15 minutes (which is below the threshold of being considered a "contact" for transmission) --- this is a very different situation than being colocated in the same classroom for over 6 hours per day.
Trying to compare schools to stores --- is just an insanely stupid argument. The very type of thing pushing by people who don't deal with facts and science.
Let's take a look at teachers and safety...
"Most teachers would prefer to teach in person but over 70% will not do so voluntarily if they do not feel safe."
"There are no issues here in Florida with teachers returning to school. Despite us having the worst governor on planet earth (from your perspective). All classes are manned."
From your home town paper -
Many teachers are fearful as they contemplate a return to school
With Florida still reporting thousands of new COVID-19 cases each day, no one knows how safe the schools will be
https://www.tampabay.com/news/educa...arful-as-they-contemplate-a-return-to-school/
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No, they're not. Some are backed by some articles that support the same narrative. This doesn't mean they are backed by facts and information. At least not facts any unbiased scientist would call "Facts". Other statements you make are entirely your own with no backing whatsoever. "Leaps of Logic", if you will. Sans the logic.
Says you! How do you know someone who goes to the mall, and then goes to Home Depot and then goes to Winn Dixie to shop for groceries before stopping to get their oil changed at Jiffy Lube isn't spreading the virus more than if they had just stayed at a school and worn a mask in their classroom? You don't. Because you don't think like this. You not a critical thinker. You're a drone. A+B must = C. End of story. Real life is far more complex.
From your article:
When Pasco County district employees were surveyed, 47 percent said they would select a traditional school assignment as their first choice. Another 34 percent said they would take either an in-school or online post, whichever is needed.
Sounds to me like 81 % of those surveyed would go to school. How many times will you take a beating and keep coming back with stupid posts?
You are just posting your narrative again... Ignoring science and reality....
Someone stopping at Home Depot then Winn Dixie then Jiffy Lube -- spending 15 minutes at each which is below the CDC transmission threshold for a contact ---- is very different than spending over 6 hours per day locked in a crowded classroom that barely meets social distancing requirements of 6 feet. Your assertions are a laughable grasping at straws -- devoid of common sense or science.
Science. Reality. You're an idiot.
The person running around town all day is in contact with many, many more people (who are also exponentially in contact with many, many more people) than 25 kids with one teacher all day.
Oh! But the CDC said 15 min is all good! what a complete joke. The Party appreciates you being a good little soldier. The rest of us laugh at you.
Let's reference the science...
Close contact is defined by CDC as someone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for a cumulative total of 15 minutes or more over a 24-hour period starting from 2 days before illness onset (or, for asymptomatic patients, 2 days prior to test specimen collection) until the time the patient is isolated.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...contact is defined by,the patient is isolated.
Right. Support the questionable declaration by quoting the agency that made it. Like defining a word using the word.
If I can only get COVID if I am around someone for more than 15 minutes, why do I need to wear a mask in an elevator? A short bus ride? if I run into the liquor store to get a six pack? Hell, why don't we make it so kids have to switch classrooms every 15 min to stay within the close contact regulations rule?
Can't get sick if its only 15 minutes!