"Rather Cut Off My Arm Than Pay Back What Greece Borrowed".... Varoufukis

That will just pay the tab (if successful). Won't stop Greece from racking up more debt, though.

Donors will receive a week-long vacation in Athens, Greece, for just €5,000 ($5,600). On the cheaper side there’s also a €3 postcard of Greece’s Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, €6 for a Greek salad, and €25 for a bottle of Greek wine (see the site for the full list).

At one point, Feeney was offering an island in Greece if someone donated the whole €1.6 billion, but the Greek government reportedly told Indiegogo it did not like that idea.

According to the Washington Post, Feeney admits that even if the Indiegogo campaign makes history and pays the IMF, it doesn’t necessarily mean Greece is out of the crisis.
<-- Yep, because they will continue to spend like drunken sailors.
 
Donors will receive a week-long vacation in Athens, Greece, for just €5,000 ($5,600). On the cheaper side there’s also a €3 postcard of Greece’s Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, €6 for a Greek salad, and €25 for a bottle of Greek wine (see the site for the full list).

At one point, Feeney was offering an island in Greece if someone donated the whole €1.6 billion, but the Greek government reportedly told Indiegogo it did not like that idea.

According to the Washington Post, Feeney admits that even if the Indiegogo campaign makes history and pays the IMF, it doesn’t necessarily mean Greece is out of the crisis.
<-- Yep, because they will continue to spend like drunken sailors.

They should get in on this idea. At this point id be willing to contribute, and pay an exorbitant price, to mail one of those greek fuckers, or one of the bankers who bought their debt, a giant steaming turd, just to let them know what i think of them.

Im sure alot of other people would be willing to do it as well. :D
 
It takes two willing parties to create a debt. But there is no sense in destroying the debtor's ability to pay. They are asking for restructuring, a reasonable repayment schedule. Punishing them for past excesses achieves nothing. If the punishment is supposed to teach a lesson, it should teach both parties to the loan a lesson. Are large numbers of krauts unemployed because the Greek bubble burst?
why is it when a bank loans too much money it eventually becomes my problem? It's one thing to negotiate the repayment, it's another thing to demand more money to pay off the loan.
 
When Greece Forgave Germany's Debt
ap_wire.png
| By PAN PYLAS and DAVID MCHUGH
Posted: 07/02/2015 10:00 pm EDT

"LONDON (AP) — Forgiving debt, if done right, can get an economy back on its feet.

"The International Monetary Fund certainly thinks so, according to a new report in which it argues Greece should get help.

"But Germany, another major creditor to Greece, is resisting, even though it knows better than most what debt relief can achieve. After the hell of World War II, the Federal Republic of Germany — commonly known as West Germany — got massive help with its debt from former foes.

"Among its creditors then? Greece.

"The 1953 agreement, in which Greece and about 20 other countries effectively wrote off a large chunk of Germany's loans and restructured the rest, is a landmark case that shows how effective debt relief can be. It helped spark what became known as the German economic miracle.

"So it's perhaps ironic that Germany is now among the countries resisting Greece's requests for debt relief.

"Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis claims debt relief is the key issue that held up a deal with creditors last week and says he'd rather cut off his arm than sign anything that doesn't tackle the country's borrowings.

"The IMF backed the call to make Greece's debt manageable with a wide-ranging report on Thursday that also blames the Greek government for being slow with reforms.

"Despite years of budget cuts, Greece's debt burden is higher than when its bailout began in 2010 — over 300 billion euros ($332 billion), or 180 percent of annual GDP — because the economy has shrunk by a quarter.

"Here's a look at when Germany got debt relief, and if such action might help Greece.

___

FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS

"1953's London Agreement, hammered out over months, was generous to West Germany. It cut the amount owed, extended the repayment schedule and granted low interest rates.

"And crucially, it linked West Germany's debt repayment schedule to its ability to pay — tying repayments to the trade surplus it was running and expected to run. That created an incentive for trading partners to buy German goods.

"The deal effectively blocked claims for reparations for the destruction the Nazis inflicted on others.

"But it wasn't a one-way street.

"The London Agreement gave Germany sweeping debt forgiveness and protection from creditors, in exchange for pro-market reforms," said Professor Albrecht Ritschl of the London School of Economics.

"West Germany was able to borrow on international markets again, and, free of onerous debt payments, saw its economy grow strongly."

More >>
 
LOL, this is a seriously far reach from an obviously left wing writer, Greece was meaningless at the time just as they are today.

When Greece Forgave Germany's Debt
ap_wire.png
| By PAN PYLAS and DAVID MCHUGH
Posted: 07/02/2015 10:00 pm EDT

"LONDON (AP) — Forgiving debt, if done right, can get an economy back on its feet.

"The International Monetary Fund certainly thinks so, according to a new report in which it argues Greece should get help.

"But Germany, another major creditor to Greece, is resisting, even though it knows better than most what debt relief can achieve. After the hell of World War II, the Federal Republic of Germany — commonly known as West Germany — got massive help with its debt from former foes.

"Among its creditors then? Greece.

"The 1953 agreement, in which Greece and about 20 other countries effectively wrote off a large chunk of Germany's loans and restructured the rest, is a landmark case that shows how effective debt relief can be. It helped spark what became known as the German economic miracle.

"So it's perhaps ironic that Germany is now among the countries resisting Greece's requests for debt relief.

"Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis claims debt relief is the key issue that held up a deal with creditors last week and says he'd rather cut off his arm than sign anything that doesn't tackle the country's borrowings.

"The IMF backed the call to make Greece's debt manageable with a wide-ranging report on Thursday that also blames the Greek government for being slow with reforms.

"Despite years of budget cuts, Greece's debt burden is higher than when its bailout began in 2010 — over 300 billion euros ($332 billion), or 180 percent of annual GDP — because the economy has shrunk by a quarter.

"Here's a look at when Germany got debt relief, and if such action might help Greece.

___

FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS

"1953's London Agreement, hammered out over months, was generous to West Germany. It cut the amount owed, extended the repayment schedule and granted low interest rates.

"And crucially, it linked West Germany's debt repayment schedule to its ability to pay — tying repayments to the trade surplus it was running and expected to run. That created an incentive for trading partners to buy German goods.

"The deal effectively blocked claims for reparations for the destruction the Nazis inflicted on others.

"But it wasn't a one-way street.

"The London Agreement gave Germany sweeping debt forgiveness and protection from creditors, in exchange for pro-market reforms," said Professor Albrecht Ritschl of the London School of Economics.

"West Germany was able to borrow on international markets again, and, free of onerous debt payments, saw its economy grow strongly."

More >>
 
Loan shark theater...

"Greece
"Greece is a remarkable country full of wonderful people, but along dimensions of development and governance, the place is plainly pretty fucked up. It has been fucked up that way for a long time, for decades at least. This has never been secret. Anyone who has visited Athens knows it has far more in common with Bucharest or Istanbul than with orderly Western European capitals. In the run up to Greece’s joining the Euro, everyone who wanted to know knew that Greece’s qualifications to join the Eurozone were, shall we say, ambitious. Mainstream establishment banks “helped” Greece and other Southern European countries with accounting fudges that, while perhaps obscure, were not secret even at the time. Despite protestations when these deals hit the news in 2010 that officials were “shocked, shocked”, they were explicitly blessed by the agency that compiles the statistics on which Eurozone entrance was based in 2002 and Greece’s gaming was extensively reported in 2003 (ht Heidi Moore, both cites). The Euro was and ought to be primarily a political enterprise. In order to sell the common currency to Northern European elites, its architects required Eurozone members to meet strict “convergence criteria” and especially the requirements of the Stability and Growth Pact. But in practice, those criteria have always been interpreted flexibly. Most Eurozone members have broken their promises at one point or another, including both Germany and France. The Euro was a unification project, and erred (not unreasonably, I think) on the side of building a big tent.

"Germany and France may have missed their Stability and Growth commitments now and again, but they are not fucked up like Greece is. Greek governments — not the current, much maligned Syriza, but decades of its predecessors — treated the state like a teat from which clients and friends of electoral victors might suck. The Greek state has been a shady, opportunistic borrower, no doubt, the kind of character no one would lend money to with any great expectation of seeing it back.

"And yet, that’s precisely what bankers in the relatively not-fucked-up Eurozone countries did! These people were not naïfs. They knew the Greek state was sketchy. But precisely because it was sketchy, prior to the financial crisis its debt paid slightly higher interest rates than that of safer Eurozone sovereigns. European banking regulations attached zero risk weights to all EU sovereigns, rendering it nearly costless for banks to simply manufacture deposits to purchase sovereign debt. Eurozone sovereigns were default-risk-free as a regulatory matter and currency-risk-free from the perspective of Eurozone banks. The European financial system was architected to make lending to Greece — and Spain and Portugal and Italy — a money machine for bankers with little career risk over a medium term. Sketchy credits tend to punch above their weight in terms of volume of issuance, so there was a lot of nice paper to buy. The bankers who lent to these states understood perfectly well that there was in fact a long-term risk, an uncertainty, a constructive ambiguity. They lent anyway, and took home very nice salaries and bonuses for doing so. It was conventional to lend, the mainstream consensus was that credit risk was over and worry warts were old-fashioned, Europe was strong and would work this out. If the worry warts turned out to be right, it was likely years away, IBGYBG.

"When the game was up, when the global house of credit cards collapsed in the late Aughts, European leaders had a choice. They had knowingly and purposefully brought weak states into the Eurozone, because they genuinely, even nobly, wished to build a large, strong, United Europe. When they did so, they understood there would be crises. A unified Europe, they had always claimed, would be forged one crisis at a time. The right thing to have done for Europe at this point would have been to point out the regulatory errors and misaligned incentives that encouraged profligate lending and enabled corruption and waste among borrowers, and fix those. Banks that had made bad loans would acknowledge losses. The banks themselves would have to be restructured or bailed out.

"But “bank restructuring” is a euphemism for imposing losses on wealthy creditors. And explicit bank bailouts are humiliations of elites, moments when the mask comes off and the usually tacit means by which states preserve and enhance the comfort of the comfortable must give way to very visible, very unpopular, direct cash flows.

"The choice Europe’s leaders faced was to preserve the union or preserve the wealth, prestige, and status of the community of people who were their acquaintances and friends and selves but who are entirely unrepresentative of the European public. They chose themselves. The formal institutions of the EU endure, but European community is now failing fast.

"It is difficult to overstate how deeply Europe’s leaders betrayed the ideals of European integration in their handing of the Greek crisis..."

The rest >>>
 
When you made the loan, as the krauts did, you wanted interest. That interest serves two purposes; one, if you get it, you won't have to get a real, get your hands dirty job (ok, just having fun with that, but in a sense that's what we want from money renting), and two, it's an acknowledgment that you're taking a risk.

The interesting thing about your scenario is that some krauts must have noticed those things about Greece and yet continued to pour their capital into Greece.


When an insurance co writes a fire policy on a house, do they expect that house to burn?
 
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