raising funds

[sharpe]

I have been trading real time on updown.com for the past 6+ months with virtual money.

Here are my results:

Since Start DEC. NOV. OCT. SEP. AUG. JUL. JUN.
ME 28.5% -.9% .6% 6.8% -.2% 6.8% 7.6% 5.2%
S&P -7.6% -2.2% -.5% 10.8% -7.2% -5.7% -2.2% -1.8%

Position size of total equity= 20% for swing, up to 40% for intraday
Largest daily drawdown= -3% of total equity
Total trades = 150+
Duration= 1-3 days

For the original poster, I challenge you to a 3 month contest on updown.com.

For the experienced real traders I have a couple of questions:
1. What are my chances of soliciting funds based on this track record?
2. Can I solicit wealthy people in my city openly if I agree not to take a fee?

 

[Lights]

Unless you are a large reputable fund, fund family, or several decade pedigree, you will never show up on the radar for HNW money. People I have spoken to past year in that business are only concerned about security of their funds and transparency, none which can be taken with confidence from a startup.

You have a chance if you are at around $50million AUM of your own money and few other investors. Rule of thumb is that 50 is minimum cutoff to get on any radar screen.

Quote from falcon:

I have a friend is does auditing for type of thing and says depending on your strategy you need anywhere from 6 months to 3 years track record on a clean account. His auditing company charges tens of thousands for the pleasure.

 

[Lights]

This is what marketing is. Some people with great products and services can't sell shit. Some people with nothing sell nothing and make alot of money.

I've seen quant funds which built out headquarters looking like university campus with PhD astrophysics lectures and supercomputers in the lobby with flashy lights while their actual trading strategy was just low latency frontrunning. the HNW's didn't know what they actualy did, but it looked real cool and they poured billions there.

Quote from traderwann:

So the question seems to now be: what options does someone with a good set of simulated results have to secure the initial capital necessary to generate real results, besides friends and family?

There must be billions and billions of dollars in this world generating just a few percent. Unfortunately no one I know is a HNWI, it seems redundant at best to beg for money from people who only have a little when there's so much out there. There's gotta be a better way.

 

[heech]

Quote from sharpe:


For the experienced real traders I have a couple of questions:
1. What are my chances of soliciting funds based on this track record?
2. Can I solicit wealthy people in my city openly if I agree not to take a fee?

1. The numbers are clearly great, and no investor will ever turn down an opportunity to get a slice of that. The only reason people aren't pounding on your door isn't related to level of performance... It's all the other stuff we talked about: are you legit, is the performance going to be persistent, etc, etc.

So, you don't need to worry about getting better gains... More a question of, how do you plan to alleviate those specific concerns? I'd say trade live, and work on maintaining a longer track record. If you're serious about this as a career, then be ready to have a multiple-year (decade?) time horizon for your plans. Make/beg/borrow/steal a bank roll and start trading, and make sure your trading record is clean (reflective of your strategy). And if you can provably make 30-40% a year with low draw downs, you can start thinking seriously about how to raise money, and/or find a tool for leveraging your funds.

You'll find any number of options a few years down the line once you bring your own capital and track record to the table. Prop, or some fund of funds that offer prop-type leverage but structured as a fund ( so you have growth potential for eventually accepting outside money).

2. I think that's a good question. I suspect the answer is yes, regulators aren't involved if you're working for no compensation. Might be worth pursuing.

 

[SREC]

Quote from traderwann:

Can you possibly IGNORE and AVOID most of the points I've raised any more clearly? Are you a politician? Sigh, this isn't why I hesitated to post originally but it is another entirely good reason: the inability to comprehend written english.

I don't think any of your points matter, you are just trying to avoid and rationalize away reality.

Here is a question. How much of your own money are you willing to contribute to start building a track record?

 

[traderwann]

Quote from SREC:
I don't think any of your points matter, you are just trying to avoid and rationalize away reality. Here is a question. How much of your own money are you willing to contribute to start building a track record?

I stayed away from this thread for a few days because I didn't like where it was going. I don't want to be antagonistic or feel that way, the point is to talk openly, reasonably, rationally like intelligent adults. So that being said.

If you don't think my points matter it seems appropriate to explain, instead of using your subjective perception which may or may not be true (but is definitely assumed so beyond question), as a reason to not answer. The latter is often associated with arrogance and ego. Perhaps they do matter but you aren't seeing what I mean. Perhaps I'm missing some info that would change my opinion. All of these can be found out through conversation that addresses what has been said.

I'm not following the point of your question, let's say the answer is $2.50 or $11 483 or any other number, how does that help?

 

[syswizard]

Quote from falcon:

His auditing company charges tens of thousands for the pleasure.

Now THAT'S A GREAT BUSINESS to be in.

 

[syswizard]

Quote from Lights:

This is what marketing is. Some people with great products and services can't sell shit. Some people with nothing sell nothing and make alot of money.

I've seen quant funds which built out headquarters looking like university campus with PhD astrophysics lectures and supercomputers in the lobby with flashy lights while their actual trading strategy was just low latency frontrunning. the HNW's didn't know what they actually did, but it looked real cool and they poured billions there.

Bottomline: Want to sell something ? LOOK GOOD.
"Astrophysics"....I love that !

If you can't produce something concrete, baffle them with B***SH*T.

 

[traderwann]

Quote from heech:
For those still trying to help this guy... why? I can't think of a less deserving candidate.

I read this yesterday and just didn't know what to say. I'm amazed. Like I said, I left this thread alone for a few days because I didn't like where it was going. Too much blind antagonism blocking out reasoned rationality. Now, really, thinking about this ... is there really not ONE, not ONE less deserving candidate?! Just off the top of my head, not even thinking through this:

There are so many con men liars out there who KNOW they are conning someone and do it on purpose, over and over. Sometimes they even make the news! (This is what is really negative, biased and outright spiteful about your comment, you must read the news and this kind of thing has been all over it lately and yet I'm worse still) There are probably tens of thousands if not millions of people who are "less deserving" on so many levels, from any angle you look at it ... and you want to slap that label on me?! Further, you have no idea about the content of my character except what you have assumed or perceived through a message board and yet I'm the least deserving person? Whatever. Clearly the point is not to make sense, it's just to be insulting and you achieved that. Too bad I'm rubber and you're glue so what you say bounced off me and sticks to you! There we go, an equally intelligent and well thought out response for you sir.

You know heech, I will gladly accept criticism where it is DUE and JUST. If you can show where it is due and just then I will gladly accept it.

 

[Swan Noir]

I am very curious to know a definitive answer to this. Anyone have any information or a direction to look in?

Quote from heech:

2. I think that's a good question. I suspect the answer is yes, regulators aren't involved if you're working for no compensation. Might be worth pursuing.

[/B]