Quote: "Trading is a teachable science, not an innate talent."

Agree. It's the same as getting a Tier I MBA. Some people are naturally born charasmatic leaders while others try to practice what they read in books. Some of the world's greatest leaders didn't even go to college. Trading is teachable but some people will simply be better than others.

Quote from MrN:

It can be "taught" in the sense that if someone else hands you a working system and starting capital, most people with enough motivation to carry out the program could do it.

It can't be "taught" in the sense that any random person has the potential to evaluate markets, discover strategies and edges, and then apply them effectively and consistently.

To be in this second group requires talent and aptitude. Passion is not enough.
 
Quote from bankroll:

Either by Michael Covel or Paul Tudor Jones it is not clear from which of the two.

The question is what is the truth of the statement? Or your opinion?

Indisputably true in my mind. Trading is like any other learned skill: almost anyone can become good at it given adequate focused training and deliberate practice. The problem for most people, and most of all for aspiring lone-wolf independents, is that they have nobody to teach them in a structured way and aren't competent to design and implement their own training/practice regimen.
 
Quote from eurusdzn:

What of Peter Brandt whose book I read a while back. Seems like he uses classic
Edwards and Magee chart formations to trade breakouts on commodities primarily.
It can't be just that. He is a lifelong professional market participant. I believe he was a commercial hedger for Campbell (soup) or something like that.
He is undoubtedly successful and has to be classified as a successful user of TA.
He seems to say as much.
Now, for example , are major market participants looking at bonds and sp500 breaking technical levels? Is it significant or not. Is this TA or macro?
Rambling here..... But there was a nice journal here a while back with a trader
skillfully scaling in and out of of long usd/jpy very early while it was n the high 70's.
He seemed very adept with forex markets, major participants and major levels,
market dynamics etc...a lot of TA stuff. However he was "onto" this idea like a dog on bone due to
The still yet to come macro issues regarding Abenomics. Imagine if he sustained this effort with skill.
So what is this? TA?
My only point, if I have one, is i dont think anyone here that believes a few books, a couple years , and some backtestimg of TA systems is enough to be successful. Am I right at least about that?

Don't know what exactly "big money" uses, but TA and particularly breakouts still work very well. It's just a little bit more nuanced than "buy the break and cash in later".
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Provided the fact computers don't have emotions and over 70% of all volume is automated trading--- I don't get the emotional aspect if you truly believe that you have an edge. Emotions, yeah, if you are gambling, over leveraged, or scared money. But then you shouldn't b trading.

Is it possible that control over ones emotions might be a small part of their edge?
 
Quote from deaddog:

Is it possible that control over ones emotions might be a small part of their edge?

One speaks about how emotions are easy part who obviously has never even traded seriously, when years of hard work are sublimated to the fact if your edge works or not in the "now".

It's much the same in most professions associated with responsible decision making. There's a widely known psychological phenomenon called "decision making fatigue". That's why trading and other responsible professions such as surgery are so draining and stressful.

Of course trading is far less dangerous than fighter pilot job at the mission, but responsible decision making still causes adrenaline and general stress levels going seriously up in the process, especially when your family livelihood depends on it.

When you hear from someone that trading is absolutely no stress you can say for sure that person never traded more seriously than a spare time hobby.

Soros took YEARS off in 80's because of insane stress caused by continuous investment decision making process. Victor Sperandeo admitted he stopped day trading, because it caused his blood pressure going up... paper traders are always solid as a rock whatever happens. :D

Of course, when your edge is proven by many, many trades it becomes emotionally easier. But takes a lot of experience and a lot of pain to get there.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Provided the fact computers don't have emotions and over 70% of all volume is automated trading--- I don't get the emotional aspect if you truly believe that you have an edge. Emotions, yeah, if you are gambling, over leveraged, or scared money. But then you shouldn't b trading.

So you would be completely unperturbed if you woke up tomorrow and found 20% of your net worth had been vaporized because of some stuff happening in the Middle East, and investors were ringing the phones off the hook screaming about it?

Or, you see a potential trade of a lifetime that could make 100 times your investment - you are just going to allocate 1% and not sweat it at all, or you are going to work your nuts off to try and capitalise on this? And when the make or break moment comes, you aren't going to be bothered if it's a success or failure? Unless you are an automaton, emotions are going to influence your behaviour.

Secondly, why do you even want to trade or make money in the first place? Emotions. There is no rational reason to do anything, without an emotional desire to do it first - that is why depressed people stay in bed for months doing almost nothing. Even survival can quite rationally be ignored if you are emotionally completely unconcerned about what happens to you in future.
 
Quote from Specterx:

Indisputably true in my mind. Trading is like any other learned skill: almost anyone can become good at it given adequate focused training and deliberate practice. The problem for most people, and most of all for aspiring lone-wolf independents, is that they have nobody to teach them in a structured way and aren't competent to design and implement their own training/practice regimen.

Why do you think Covel couldn't learn?

His book proves he didn't learn how markets work nor did he learn to trade to make money.

He mentions Henry as an example. He suggests that Henry is pulling down 20% year after year. Why is Henry an example for a non trader like Covel?

Look at a 5 minute bar on any worthwhile instrument.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

So you would be completely unperturbed if you woke up tomorrow and found 20% of your net worth had been vaporized because of some stuff happening in the Middle East, and investors were ringing the phones off the hook screaming about it?

Or, you see a potential trade of a lifetime that could make 100 times your investment - you are just going to allocate 1% and not sweat it at all, or you are going to work your nuts off to try and capitalise on this? And when the make or break moment comes, you aren't going to be bothered if it's a success or failure? Unless you are an automaton, emotions are going to influence your behaviour.

Secondly, why do you even want to trade or make money in the first place? Emotions. There is no rational reason to do anything, without an emotional desire to do it first - that is why depressed people stay in bed for months doing almost nothing. Even survival can quite rationally be ignored if you are emotionally completely unconcerned about what happens to you in future.

Those are good points cutten. This is why diversification across multiple asset classes is critical--- real estate, stocks, currencies, whatever. Yes, emotions are the motivation for everything but the actual execution should be emotionless and if you can't do that, automation is your only salvation. Obviously, I have not mastered this and am simply speaking in ideals. surf
 
Quote from piezoe:

"...Teachable Science"

Certainly the most bizarre use of the word "science" I have yet seen.
We have just started a blog, we will be making more posts soon. It's called TradingAsAScience.com. This is in addition to our TradersStudioBlog.com which has many posts and we already update regularly.
Understanding how markets work is a science, it's difficult to see because it's Interdisciplinary , mass psychology,time series forecasting,econmomics,game theory just to name a new disciplines which how markets work.
 
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